Induction Reasoning......

Only one of five commissioners said it, and included it as just one of several possible regulatory paths. Other commissioners went on record as opposing that one path.

Reductio ad absurdum.

.. especially the big orange clown. But his attention span is much too short to read it.

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We have used camp stoves outside to cook during past power outages. But during the more recent outages, it was much more convenient to use a common food service portable butane burner inside. It seems that while not completely CO-free, they are much better than the others.

 

I put more than 20 hours on the new generator last year according to the hour meter.

Outage SOP is to set up a propane camp stove on top of the electric range in our kitchen.

The generator isn't powerful enough to run the cooktop (old or new) but it's plenty to run the commercial-sized ventilator in our kitchen.

 

That works great for your top burners. Trouble is, for the oven, you need to be around with your match again every time the thermostat wants to cycle the burner on again.

Standing pilots, thermocouples, and millivolt gas valves just keep on tickin'.

 

Also an issue with using a match or piezoelectric back up for furnaces, and boilers, and hot water appliances.

 

I was surprised my low NOx water heater still uses a standing pilot along with a thermoscouplers to drive the safety cutoffs. The pilot has blown out several times, but it usually fires right back up. Unfortunately that means that I shower at work. Gotta clock-in on time.

 

Propane has PERCs

The Propane Industry Is Paying TV Influencers to Shill for Fossil Fuels

 

Propane bar-b-q grill works. As does a propane fireplace with optional battery starter.

 

If you have a gas stove, there is no reason that you can't run it's 120V power cord through a UPS during a power outage. They run a fairly long time if you don't have much of a load on them. I'd think that the spark igniter is pretty low power.

 

Just reading up on the glass-ceramic sheets they use for the tops of these things. Same stuff they use for the smooth-top conventional-resistance ranges. They're pretty transparent at infrared, and the conventional smoothtops aren't really heating them by conduction from a heating element; they use an element optimized for giving off infrared in a range that shines through the glass-ceramic and heats the pot. (And heats the glass-ceramic some too, because it's only mostly transparent to IR.)

Funny way to think about it ... both the conventional smoothtop and the induction cooktop are passing some frequency of the electromagnetic spectrum through the glass-ceramic sheet to wiggle some of the matter in the pot. The induction cooker is using a frequency around 40 kHz and the conventional one is using a frequency somewhere in the tens to low hundreds of THz.

But the similarity only goes that far, because if the pot isn't there, inductance puts a limit on the power flowing in the induction coil below, whereas the IR source keeps radiating the same amount of IR anyway, shining through the cooktop and wiggling whatever other matter happens to be on or above it.

 

I imagine the issue would be in getting to the oven plug whenever to power is out.. Probably not enough space behind the range for the UPS.

 

UPSes can be made pretty small these days, and gas stoves use a pretty negligible amount of power.

Maybe gas ranges should be offered with UPS designed in.

Heyyyyy, I've got it: an optional standing pilot. The power goes out, you open the valve, light it with a match, and a thermopile and boost converter run the electronic controls.

But maybe manufacturers who read writing on the wall will not be making a lot of investment in gas stove redesigns going forward.

 

Hank Hill, the original propane influencer:

 

...which starts a a 24 hour count-down to close the valve and cut off the temporary emergency pilot. Way too open to abuse if left as a full-time mode.

 

Oh yeah, Orange Man was SO bad....how did we stand the 28% improvements in our 401K and investments but, thank Goodness we now have -15%...only trillions of dollars wiped out from our retirement accounts! And how did we ever survive on STOCKED grocery shelves and eggs only costing $2 a dozen?? Let's rejoice at our 10% inflation and at the fact that over 10% of our elderly retired folks are saying they have to skip meals because they don't have enough money to eat three meals a day. But orange man gone...disregard a baffoon who steals classified documents and doesn't even know how to store them (in a GSA-approved safe in a secure building) and rents out his house for $50,000 a month to his son...no money laundering or "paying the big guy 10%" going on there, huh?

 

Sarcasm is a low form of humor. but I liked it.

JeffD

 

S&P 500 Jan 2017 close 2362.72 Jan 2021 close 3972.89. (Interactive graph here, I didn't try to drill for specific days of the month).

Over that four-year period, that's a per-year growth of ...

Code:

>>> pow(3972.89/2362.72, 1/4.)
1.1387373637745093

... 13.9 %.

The guy before him covered eight years, starting from 797.87 in Jan 2009, or ...

Code:

>>> pow(2362.72/797.87, 1/8.)
1.1453415477197224

... 14.5 %.

So I guess we "stood" the one guy's 13.9% pretty much the same way we "stood" the earlier guy's 14.5%.

We're currently two years into this guy's term and essentially flat (entered office at 3972.89, yesterday's close 3990.97).

What makes that come out flat is a prominent slide you can see in the graph between Dec 2021 and Oct 2022. If you pick the 12/26/2021 peak (4778.73) and the 10/9/2022 valley (3583.07), on paper you lost 25% in those 10 months.

If you picked a similar period leading up to Jan 2009 (ok, the CNBC tool lets me grab 4/2008, 9 months, or 1/2008, 12 months), you were down 38% for the 9 months, or 40% for the 12 months.

If you picked Jul 1987 at 321.83 and Oct 1987 at 247.08, you were down 25% in a single quarter. I made my first-ever market investment in August that year, so that was kind of memorable. But I stayed in, and that paid off.

Nobody likes when those things happen, but if you can't stand them, stocks maybe aren't the thing for you.

Sometimes it helps to look at what's happening in other countries around the same times, to get a sense of perspective.

 

You have to consider the cost of banning such a widely used appliance, one could encourage the use of proper ventilation instead..

 

So, that CNN article you linked is itself full of links to studies and to earlier reporting, including by CNN, with its own links to and/or citations of the studies you here portray CNN as accepting from CPSC without challenge or comment.

Choosing not to repeat themselves when they've done that reporting earlier isn't the same thing.

I'm happy to see that CNN article also links to the Grist article reprint with the history of how the whole idea that gas stoves were, well, "cooking with gas!" was drummed up by the gas lobby in the 1930s. I hadn't seen that in this thread yet.

 

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