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After egr cleaning codes remain didnt fix shaking/stall

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by William11348o, Aug 16, 2023.

  1. William11348o

    William11348o Junior Member

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    Hi all. New to prius chat but cant thank all of you for the help you have given to make this website invaluable. I purchased my 2013 prius gen 3 last christmas from friends that had it serviced at Toyota dealer from day 1. It had been running great and I checked for codes with bluetooth adapter and torque and Dr Prius and hybrid assistant. Also got techstream and usb adapter. No codes until this problem.
    Driving slow after a downhill run it started shaking itself violently and died at 130085 miles. After tow home found codes
    P0102 maf low input
    P0113 intake air temp high input
    P3190 poor engine power
    P3191 engine no start
    detail codes 526 612

    Cooler and manifold plugged up good but not completely. I could blow air through the cooler. So I cleaned the egr, cooler, pipe and intake maniforld, especially the little egr ports. Put it back together. Installed new plugs and MAF. When I try to start it now it spins the engine smoothly for 2 seconds, rpms increase and runs smoothly for another 2 seconds then it start shaking itself to death again like before. I found evidence of rat presence so I inspected the wire but didnt find any that were damaged. I triple checked all my work and didnt find any reason for the shaking. So I got a borescope and inspected the cylinders for coolant. Didnt find any wet or super clean cylinder heads. All the pistons had fairly substantial carbon buildup, probably from the egr mess. Both batteries are charged. I need suggestions on how to find the problem and/or verify if its the head gasket. Not sure what to look for. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

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    With techstream can you get the freeze frame data from when the codes set?

    Just spitballin', but I think I would then clear the codes and see if the MAF and IAT codes come back. Is IAT figured from the MAF sensor? I'm not sure, but that would lead me in that direction. I'd probably try to check wire integrity from the sensor to the ECU. Was the rodent evidence along that wire path at all?

    Any loss of coolant? You sure you have gas (don't trust the gauge)?
     
  3. William11348o

    William11348o Junior Member

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    When I first got the car I needed to add a small amount of coolant, maybe 1/2 quart. I thought that was normal for other 10 year old cars so never thought about it. I am new to techstream but have seen freeze frame values, will try again. Already cleared codes and it just repeats the problem and codes. What is the IAT? I keep thinking it needs gas but the gauge might be tricking me. Will add 5 gallons and try again. Also rat tracks were scattered, seems there is a nest above the oil filter cover. Havent checked for wires down there.
     
  4. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Active Member

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    The detail codes 526 & 612 are not for the 4 other trouble codes that you listed. Please list the trouble code that you found that is associated with those detail codes.

    +1 for making sure that you are not out of gas.

    +1 for checking the wiring from the MAF sensor and intake air temperature sensor to the ECU.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Not exactly, but that one "sensor" does include both of those sensors, and one wiring plug connects to it for both.

    On a sudden-onset engine failure to start/run (P3191/P3190) together with the codes for both of those sensors, I think I would have looked there first, carefully, long before doing any of that other stuff. Especially with rodent signs.
     
  6. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

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    IAT is intake air temperature. As Chapman said and as I was questioning (badly), it's a part of the MAF sensor (the sensor has two different jobs).

    First thing to do is remove the engine cover and visually inspect the wires from the MAF/IAT sensor as much and as far as you possibly can.
     
  7. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Quite often aftermarket maf sensors don’t work. Sometimes oem is the only acceptable maf.

    Normally you can go 60k-120k miles between coolant changes without losing fluid. A severe head gasket issue will cause violent shaking beyond just startup.


    Another common mistake after removing the intake manifold is a disconnected pcv valve.
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Keep an eye on the engine coolant reservoir for sure. Was there some trick in head gasket checking, something involving taking the reservoir cap off, evidence of pressure or vacuum??

    Boroscope inspection with the cooling system pressurized (hook up some sort of adapter to the engine coolant reservoir, apply air pressure somehow) will accelerate any head gasket coolant leakage into cylinders.

    That said, head gasket failure usually comes with codes p03XX, with XX sub'd by 00 indicating general misfire, and 01 through 04 id'ing which particular cylinder.
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Maybe per this:
    Cylinders misfiring | Page 2 | PriusChat

    ^ I think "header tank cap" equals the cap on the engine coolant reservoir.
     
  10. William11348o

    William11348o Junior Member

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    Wasnt sure where they belonged but probably from a P0AA6 which disappeared when I disconnected the HV battery charger. Makes sense since it is an electricity path to the grid. The other codes keep repeating.

    There were a couple droppings along the valve cover next to sparkplug wires

    First thing I checked but dont see any frayed or damaged wires. New MAF was a cheapie. Will try again with original. I put NAPA plugs in, should I change them back to the plugs I pulled? They looked brand new and consistently all same tan coloring.

    As stated part of the MAF but just checking, there is also the MAP below.

    Ah yes the pcv. I actually got up in the middle of the night to see if I was had reconnected it. Yes it is connected. Need to add my OCC if I can decide where to locate it.
     
    #10 William11348o, Aug 17, 2023
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  11. William11348o

    William11348o Junior Member

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    This is where Im at now. But cant figure out how to connect to apply pressure. The reservoir has a twist on cap with o-ring seals below the level of the overflow tube. Need to remove cap to pressurize. I have 2 air sources for the task. Only 15 psi needed. But also expected to see steam cleaned piston heads which were all carbonized and no wetness observed. Will keep trying. Autozone rented me the borescope for 3 months so I have time. Followed this guy at The Car Care Nut:
     
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  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I can relate to that lol. It’s the only way to get any more sleep.

    There’s a little stub, just below the cap, with a rubber cap; does it have through-hole into the reservoir? I’ve never looked closely at it; it does act as a stop to prevent cap inadvertently unscrewing iirc.
     
    #12 Mendel Leisk, Aug 17, 2023
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  13. William11348o

    William11348o Junior Member

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    Today when I went to check wiring I had put car in accessory mode (push start button twice, no brake) to play music while I worke. The egr valve got very warm to the touch. Is this normal?

    Yes it does go through. Normally (other ice cars) it would be the same as the coolant overflow. I can blow air through it but it is blocked by the o-rings. Thinking of getting a new cap and drill a hole through to by pass the o-rings. First I will try the rubber glove with rubber band around neck.

    Welcome to the OCD club
     
    #13 William11348o, Aug 17, 2023
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  14. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

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    On page 114 is the wiring diagram for the MAF. A quick test would be to disconnect the MAF and (the correct part of) the ECU and look for continuity on the (4) wires that go between the two. Only do it if you feel comfortable. Then you could check for voltage on pin 3 of the MAF connector when the car is on (ECU re-connected). You'll probably need t-pins or back probes. That's what I'd do.

    I'll probably eat crow here, but I don't really see the point of the head gasket tests when you got the codes you got and have symptoms that are rarely if ever associated with head gasket failure. The fact that you're getting a MAF code and an IAT code, and those two things just happen to be from the same sensor unit seems like too big a lead to not follow first beyond changing the part. I'd also +1 putting the OEM sensor back in.
     

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  15. William11348o

    William11348o Junior Member

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    Sounds like a plan. Was an electrician before, have the t-pins etc. Did replace the MAF and it still rough. Engine wont start as pushing the gas peddle causes the engine to stall.The head gasket is just because I too am OCD. The egr cooler was very blocked even if i could blow through it. In cleaning I took 3 days of soaking in oxi-clean and reaming out the channels. Intake manifold may have been completely blocked. I read somewhere that a blocked egr operation could cause blown head gaskets. Not seeing any evidence of bad gasket so I postpone further testing. Thanks
     
  16. William11348o

    William11348o Junior Member

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    Finally got to checking wiring and found that eg2 circuit for the maf sub system had a resisitance to ground of 20 ohms, specs say less than 1 ohm and manual says to replace ecm (toyota service manual page 2221). Do you all agree? If so whats the best way to replace ecm? Will a tested used one be ok or should I go with the Toyota refurbished unit? Or should I check something else. I think I need to do the same test but before and after unplugging ecm connector to be sure the resistance is in the ecm.
     
  17. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    What if the cheapie never would have worked (typical) and your original maf went bad when the engine stalled?

    You need to check the wiring completely before replacing the ecm.
     
  18. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

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    Yes you need to unplug the ecm and test from connector to connector.
     
  19. William11348o

    William11348o Junior Member

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    Wiring was checked according to service manual, just want to verify ecm bad.
     
  20. Eddie25

    Eddie25 Active Member

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    From what I can tell EG2 should be straight to body ground through the ECM. I'd check it directly at the ECM if possible and if it's high then it does seem to be leaning that way. I'd still be apprehensive to replace the ECM though. Where are you testing your body ground from, where does the ECM get it's body ground from (those are questions I'd be asking myself)? I'd be testing ground connections like crazy before replacing an ECM, which as far as I know is a pretty rare failure point. I've heard at least one youtube tech complain that a repair manual was condemning an ECM too fast.