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Tearin' up my stinky car:

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by edthefox5, May 13, 2008.

  1. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Attention Jayman & Patrick,

    Hi dudes. I got into the car today trying to reach the evap coil and tried removing the motor assy as you guys suggested but after removing every bolt I could see the housing didn't move. Its socked in there. A complete dismantle of the dash is required but I gave that whole motor box a good looksee and it ends up funneling into a very small aperture into the evap housing anyway.It might not have allowed an entry into the housing anyway big enough to use. But after pulling the car apart some more I discovered maybe another way into the box. If you pull the front round kick panel off it reveals a ductwork. After some testing I found that ductwork is used to vent air into the back only in the "flow at your feet" setting in the HVAC screen otherwise there is no air flow out of it. I have never used that setting in a car in my life down here plus its only for the back. The front under dash is a whole different vent. I cut an inspection hole into it to check if I could see evap coil but nope got to go further. I found the panel (marked by the pen) if removed would probably reveal the evap coil. I removed the large duct to get at it and removed its screws but you cannot remove that panel without removing the whole dash plate right under the little door/box under the radio. That evap panel is trapped behind that dash plate. I cut a little hole into tha evap panel (the pen) and its got a weird looking filter mounted in it in the top of it with a #12 gauge Red & Black power wire into it. I do not know what that is. I'm like a rat chewing my way into a big piece of cheese.I'm sure if I could get that panel off I could see evap coil. I looked all over the evap box and could not believe you drilled into it. It looks like there's no way to drill into it without hitting coil. You are a very brave dude Jayman!
     

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  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Hi Ed,

    Thanks for the update. Perhaps Jay could take the repair manual pages that I previously uploaded and mark them to show you exactly where he drilled his holes.

    Otherwise, if you removed the cabin air filter and sprayed the disinfectant down into the blower motor, would that carry enough disinfectant into the evaporator to be effective?
     
  3. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I'm away on business right now, should be back late next Tuesday. I don't carry that information in my laptop so can't post any service diagrams. However, I did recently sign up with All Data and their service information is almost exactly the same as Toyota's.

    Based on your photos, I believe that plastic shield covers the heater core. The evaporator coil is much closer to the firewall.

    There is a wire on the driver side of the HVAC case that is used to hook up the thermister. The thermister is used to detect the temperature of the e-coil, and the thermister is mounted directly to the e-coil.

    Yes, as I mentioned in the other thread, it's *very* very tight in there. I drilled a 1/8 hole about 1 inch inboard from where the wire enters the case. I then used a fiber optic inspection scope from work to inspect the case area, and determined it was safe to drill the 1/2 hole.

    If you are uncomfortable with this sort of procedure, I would recommend not doing it. Obviously, drilling into the heater core or e-coil is catastrophic.

    In hindsight, it would have been a no-brainer for Toyota to put such a plug in AT THE FACTORY. Seems we hear of more cases of stinky A/C, spritzing a can of lysol doesn't cut it

    Again, I should be back late next Tuesday. If possible, could this wait until then?

    jay
     

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  4. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Hi Patrick,
    Thanks alot for responding! yes sir I have sprayed quite a bit of ozium into the motor blades. Its quite intense for a while even letting it sit for a day and it masks the smell for about 2 days. It smells like a hospital instead of stinky then quite stinky again. As Jayman stated the e-coil must be hosed just like in your house.Thanks again.
     
  5. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Thank you thank thank you!! You saved me alot of trouble. I am so desperate I was going to go back in and take that panel off but I can clearly see by your pic the heater core totally blocks the e-coil. So I'm drilling. I own maybe 6 Dewalt drills all 18 volt so I'm quite comfortable drilling anything. I will patiently await further orders sir.
    And yes an inspection hole by Toyota would solve the whole problem.
    A simple plugged hole. I owe you a large tankard of alcoholic beverage.
     
  6. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I could use a large tankard of a malted beverage. Several perhaps, the project has hit a few snags.

    Anyhoo, I've been thinking about the best way to introduce the appropriate evaporator coil disinfectant directly onto the coil, without the risk of drilling and causing catastrophic damage to the e-coil or heater core

    Today I had one of those "duh" moments and smacked my forehead

    Where the supply and suction lines enter throught the firewall would be a *perfect* place to apply the disinfectant. I don't think Toyota uses pass-through connectors at the firewall, that would raise the cost quite a bit

    I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota didn't use a thick rubber seal of some sort where the lines enter the firewall. It would be fairly easy to cut/remove this seal and apply the disinfectant directly to the coil

    You would still have to be careful how you remove the firewall plug as to not damage the hardlines for the e-coil. But I would think there would be *far* less risk to the e-coil than drilling into the case. Remember, I had borrowed a *very* expensive fiber optic inspection gadget from work, I was able to drill a very small pilot hole and snoop around before drilling the big hole

    You would still have to fashion a chunk of brass tubing with a 45 degree or 90 degree bend in it to spray DOWN onto the coil. If possible, I would still try to see if there are any large industrial/commercial shops willing to rent the fiber optic scope, to verify this

    But you can see why this would be a much easier job? To plug to resulting hole in the firewall, if you haven't destroyed the seal/plug, you could just reuse it. Or glop on some silicone.

    I would strongly recommend you check out the firewall area for this procedure. The engine may provide a bit of clearance issues, you may have to swing the relay box out of the way. I also believe forum member Hobbit has detailed instructions at his web site on how to remove the cowl assembly - he came up with a method *far* easier than the shop manual - to make access to the suction/supply lines at the firewall bulkhead

    Facing the engine and firewall, the heater core hoses should enter the firewall on your left, near the passenger side area. The A/C lines should enter near the middle of the firewall. The A/C lines should be wrapped in a foam pipe wrap sort of stuff.

    I logged onto All Data and grabbed another photo of just the A/C line locations. Hope this helps. In the meantime, my mouth is watering at the thought of heavy drinking. I'm also upset I'm missing our Victoria Day long weekend.

    jay
     

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  7. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I forgot to mention: that is most likely the power wire to the PTC supplemental electric heater.
     
  8. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Hi Jayman,

    Thank you again for taking time out for me here.

    I like your cunning new plan. I have given the AC piping to & fro the evap a casual look but I can see its going to have be jacked up good for an underneath look but sounds like the way too go.Maybe rig up a nice long stem to penetrate next to the pipe as it goes through and hose away.
    I looked under the dash again in anticipation of drilling and it might not be too too scary...well it is scary but as far as an 07 is concerned the evap plastic housing is molded around the coils so I can see the outline of both evap coil & the heater coil in the housing so worst case I will drill if I have too but will give your plan an extensive try.The best thing about drilling a hole is you know at least your spraying right on top and right at the coil. I will jack her up this week and report. Thanks again!
     
  9. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog C'Mere Sheepie!

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    Ed this is scary just to read about! what caused your problem?
     
  10. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    The ac stinks. Many peeps have this problem & you will too especially in Florida. Car interior is immaculate. I don't smoke. Cabin filter checked & cleaned weekly. Sprayed enough Ozium into motor/filter to make the car smell like a permanent hospital. Evap box drain tube clear & flowing. All front vents clear & flowing. You live in Florida which means you use the AV constantly. After about 5 months of use your car will stink like a Turkish Prison.One day you'll get into the car and go Wth!!!!! The air handler evap coil needs to be flushed with coil cleaner just like in your house but you cannot get to it. A temp. fix is to use the heater on high for about 5 minutes then the smell goes away for a day or two. Nothing like sitting in a 100 degree car in 90 degree weather.There's something unique to the design of our evap coil that makes mold grow on it really quickly.Follow Jaymans threads and he's nailed it.
    I love this car but they really messed up with this evap coil design.
     
  11. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Hi Ed,

    I took a look at my 2004 when getting gas today. If you first remove the cowl, you will have excellent access to the rubber seal where the A/C pipes run through the firewall. Hopefully an access hole drilled into the center of the rubber seal would allow you to dispense the disinfectant on top of the evaporator coil as Jay suggested, without risking damage.
     
  12. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I got back a couple of hours ago and am already at the hobby farm. The Prius is back home, and I'm taking a week off.

    At least with the FJ, the rubber firewall plug is *very* easy to remove. With the cowl off the Prius, it should also be easy to remove

    In hindsight, I now wish I had just pulled the firewall plug instead of dinking around with fiber optic inspecition scopes and drills. If the FJ gets stinky, I'll apply the EvapFresh through the firewall plug

    Anyhoo, very tired. Need nap
     
  13. Syclone

    Syclone Member

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    Coming from a completely different direction, I wonder if the AC evaporator drain in an actual hose. If so, it might be possible to pump a dilute laundry bleach solution (ie, Clorox) up into the evaporator, let it sit for a short time and then let it drain out.
     
  14. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Thanks very much for your contribution. But, never ever induce bleach into the e-coil area. The smell is intense. I had a neighbor a long time ago spray bleach into this home unit and it rendered the house un-livable it stunk so bad. You must use coil cleaner which smells rather benign.
    And yes there is a e-vap drain hose thats right behind the pass front wheel about 3 feet in. I'm quite acquainted with it.
    Thanks alot though...I will take any and all suggestions.
     
  15. Syclone

    Syclone Member

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    I guess any strong oxidizer would work. Oxiclean, which has no smell might do the job.
     
  16. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I've posted this in other threads about stinky Prius A/C, but will repeat here

    Never, EVER, apply sodium hypochlorite to an evaporator coil

    The sodium hypochlorite will attack the tubing in the e-coil which will guarantee a failure at some point. There will also be an interesting reaction with the e-coil metals, which will ironically make the e-coil smell MUCH worse than before

    I posted links to EPA-registered and metal "safe" industrial HVAC cleaners and sanitisers. One such product contains N-alkyl dimethyl ethylbenzyl ammonium chloride and N-alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride. THe other product contains chlorine dioxide with appropriate inhibitors to protect the e-coil
     
  17. Seamus

    Seamus Grumpy old man

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    I have a question.

    I used to own a Cadillac DeVille which prevented stinky AC by turning on the fan five minutes or so after the car was parked. There were parameters the computer looked at such as it had to be 80 degrees or more and the AC had to be in the on position when the car was turned off.

    The car was spooky until you knew what was going on.

    So my question is this: wouldn't it be easier to run a wire feed to the HVAC fan using a egg timer type of control rather than drilling and squirting chemicals? Park your car, twist the timer to five minutes or so and just walk away.
     
  18. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Actually a *lot* of GM brand cars now offer that feature, not just Cadillac. Stinky A/C isn't just a Prius issue. It would have been very easy for Toyota to engineer in a fan run timer

    Not so sure if the tiny 12 vdc battery would be up to the task of frequent draw like that

    I was talking to one of my neighbors near my hobby farm. He has several Kenworth T2000 highway trucks. The HVAC is remarkably easy to disassemble in those

    His problem is the evaporator coil getting loaded up with bugs and dust bunnies. So he very quickly swings the e-coil out from the case and hoses it down. However he is also interested in some of the cleaning chemicals I've mentioned here, he has allergies and is wondering if keeping his Kenworth e-coil disinfected would help

    I had no idea how easy it was to get to a heavy truck HVAC system. Lucky buggers
     
  19. jtl

    jtl Junior Member

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    So, Jayman, exactly what needs to be removed and where is it - in order to spray something into the coil to stop the stink? Also, exactly what do I spray into the hole? Sorry in advance for my ignorance on this and thanks for any help.
     
  20. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Well, the way I did it was go through the shop manual and *very* carefully pick a place to drill a hole. There is no factory hole, you must drill into the case. It's tricky work, make a mistake and you drill into the e-coil which is a huge repair bill

    I should note that I had access to things like fiber optic inspection scopes so I could drill a very small pilot hole, snoop around in the case to verify where the coil exactly was, then drill the bigger hole

    I no longer recommend drilling the case, it's simply too risky you will hit the e-coil and cause a very expensive repair bill. A better choice is to follow where the A/C lines enter the firewall, a sharp knife can be used to carefully cut the rubber seal. The e-coil is right there up against the interior side of the firewall

    From there you can use a plastic garden-style sprayer to apply NuCalgon EvapFresh. The metal wand can be cut off and bent downwards, so you spray directly down onto the e-coil

    The resulting hole in the rubber seal can then be fixed with silicone sealant. Don't even bother with the various sprays you can spray into the vents. All they do is make the car smell like a locker room