Toyota to put new hybrid-system

WOW! Thanks Ken, that link is the best Prius website I have EVER seen!!!! B)

 

I agree. A wealth of information. Thanks for sharing.

 

How big your motor will be?

For the Prius, the MG1 is about one third of the HSD and the MG2 is two thirds, then the PSD is almost nothing.
The MG1 and MG2 works together as something like an electric torque converter and a reverse funtion, no other mechanism is required.
I believe the HSD system is smaller than your Torotrak and a big motor.

Ken@Japan

 

Torotrak is clever, but I wouldn't buy a frictional drive system. It starts wearing out from the first day.

 

Well, you obviously do like component counting Ken.

Using planetary gears as power split devices are fine. Using two motors is a must in the rather complex parallel hybrid arrangement. The whole torotrak system (not just motor) fits into the same space as a 6 ratio Automatic gear - as I understand it, and using one motor reduces the overall transmission complexity.

So to your question - "How big will your motor be ?"
The electrical motor as part of the system fits into the same space where the clutch goes in a manual transmission, or where the torque converter goes in an automatic. The whole transmission is as straight a swap as can be achieved.

So I'm not sure it is a "Big motor" as you describe the TRK electrical motor ?.

As I'm trying to talk at a system package level, and with the annular motor design generating a higher power density, there would be a lower storage need (battery cell array) too ? again any facts and knowledge would be welcome.

 

Very nice page!

Graham's site has much information which does not overlap Ken's: http://home.earthlink.net/~graham1/MyToyot...PriusFrames.htm
"The Power Split Device" link under "Understanding your Prius" has an especially clear and detailed technical explanation of planetary gearing.

 

Hello Richard,

err, they don't appear to wear out with the right traction fluid. (traction fluid is oil that goes very sticky when under pressure - i.e. caught between rollers, and the film caught between the rollers stops them wearing out) :blink:

Page 8 below.
Toroidal Drive Power Density Improvements and Longevity

Essentially they tested well beyond anything that can ever be thrown at it and it was fine...

Thanks for the other Prius info link too.

 

What about the bearing surfaces, in addition to the roller-disk contact surfaces? How do they contain the lubricants and friction fluid so that one does not contaminate the other?

But I'm open-minded: after they've been driven for eight or 12 years I'll consider it.

 

Hi Richard,

As they have been running more and more sophisticated designs for over 10 years now and the accelerated life cycle tests are equivalent to more than a billion rotations of the drive shaft, (or roughly 20 years continuous driving), I'm concluding that they have the detail hydraulic lubrication system designed successfully. I guess you could call me open minded on that.

WTP

 

Toyota Patent for a 3 Shaft Toroidal IVT

This patent link by Toyota from 12th May 2005 shows that they have actively reduced the size and engagement of the electrical motor to be able to deliver the EV mode driving, and bypass the IVT gearing during low speed travel.

Looks like you will get the best of both worlds - smooth electrical drive and smooth petrol drive...


WTPooh

 

Yes. The THS system is electrical complex and mechanical simple.
Your systems is mechanical complex and electrical simple.

So, your motor is relatively small fits into clutch space like Honda IMA system.
We know the Full hybrid advantages with Electric only mode and it requires a Big motor.

It is known that a complex mechanism will break someday.
Simple is the best.

Ken@Japan

 

Nah.. just be ready to sell and upgrade later... we will get a nice price as long as we see "before" the release...

Its like computers.. if you wait for the best one coming out next.. you'll "never" get one.. there will always be better!... and bugs will accompany any major update... I think 2009 may be a good time to update.