Triangle of death and scangauge

JJLINK · Nov 24, 2011

For some reason my 12 volt battery was dead. I suspect I left the door slightly open overnight and most of the next day.

So I charged it up and when I started it up I got the Triangle of Death and the flashing ABS light.

This morning the 12v battery is fine but I still got the TOD and the ABS light. I shut if off and tried a couple more times and got the same deal.

I shut the car off removed the ScanGauge II and started it up with no TOD or ABS lights on.

This is a 2002 Prius which had the battery array replaced a couple months ago.

I saw some posts about the Scangauge and a different cable.
Could the Scangauge cable be part of the problem?

It seems like disconnecting the ODB-II cable and plugging it back in has cleared up the issue for now.

I have been using the the Scangauge since mid-September and seen this a couple of times now.

Any Ideas?

vincent1449p · Nov 25, 2011

JJLINK said: ↑

I saw some posts about the Scangauge and a different cable.
Could the Scangauge cable be part of the problem?
Click to expand...

Hi JJLINK,

Actually, there is nothing wrong with the SG cable. Many of the other multi-protocol scanners, e.g. AutoEnginuity, also has the same issue with our Gen1.

Gen1 uses pin 14 of the OBDII connector for Ts signal. When Ts is shorted to CG (Chassis Ground, pin 4) while turning the ignition ON, the car will initiate the sensor signal check (Test Mode) by blinking the ABS warning light. If you used any multi-protocol scanners, pin 14 is being used for CAN Low signal. When the scanner is trying to auto-detect which protocol the car uses, the CAN Low signal may go low momentarily and the car detects that as a sensor check and blinks the ABS warning light.

As a workaround, you can either cut pin 14 or use an adapter if you intend to use your SGII for other vehicles.

Vincent

ChapmanF · Dec 1, 2011

vincent1449p said: ↑

As a workaround, you can either cut pin 14 or use an adapter if you intend to use your SGII for other vehicles.
Click to expand...

LinearLogic (the Scangauge people) sent me a suitable cable at no charge when I asked, which also leaves the original cable for use in other vehicles, and saves the trouble of making an adapter.

-Chap

bobofky · Dec 12, 2011

wwu123 said: ↑

Thought I'd just post an update to my thread to keep the Gen 1 knowledgebase going, in the hopes it may contribute to helping others down the road. To summarize where things left off five months ago, with the help of a Scangauge, the helpful folks on this forum, and a professional diagnosis by reputable specialists Luscious Garage, we found:
1. I have an aging HV battery, which is slowly dying and will eventually need to be replaced, but probably had nothing to do with the problem.
2. A chronic condition I call Airport Parking Lot syndrome that is annoying but doesn't seem to affect the driveability of the car in any way. Error codes appear when I leave the car for at least 3-5 days in an outdoor parking lot, not every time but maybe 30% of the time.

I've had at least one more instance since August, I can't tell if there's been more, as once the warning lights go on, they will stay on for over a month before clearing, and thus mask any recurrences for a while.

The last time it happened in November, I did pay attention to my Scangauge to observe for any additional anomalous readings. When I got back from my trip, got in the car and started it, this is what I observed in sequence:
-Scangauge came up, and initially the HV battery voltages V1-V19, Vhi, Vlo, in their normal range, for one, maybe two sampling intervals. No warning lights.
-Immediately the voltages start dropping over several sampling intervals, until they're about one volt lower than normal. During this rapid drop, warning lights come on.
-Car runs and drives OK, after a few minutes, the voltages have slowly climbed back up to normal again.
-I don't remember clearly, but I think SOC also follows the same pattern. "Normal" SOC is about 65% for my car - I think that's on the higher side for our Gen 1 age.
-Six weeks later, the warning lights finally turn off by themselves.

I've been too lazy - well, more like scared - to go into HV systems, but I do continue to suspect that problem is:
-some corrosion, dust or other contaminant around one or more cells that could cause a small, slow current leakage
-condensation during rainy or foggy nights completing or accelerating the leakage over several days, maybe a few 0.1V's per day
-when the car is first started, there is either some capacitance or hysteresis that causes the computer to initially read the voltages from when the car was last running
-very quickly the voltage readings correct themselves to the actual correct values
-causing one of the ECU's to freak out not about the voltage itself, which are still in a normal range of driving values, but the rapid drop in voltage in a few seconds.

Scangauage wasn't able to scan the error codes still, and the experimental DTC XGauges from August didn't show anything, but it looks like there have been new XGauge values for DTC's since then, so I'll try the new ones sometime.

So car runs fine and I continue to use it and just ignore the warning lights. My only concern at this point is if there is a slow leak when the car is parked for long periods, that the HV cells could drop low enough where it causes other more serious problems:
-We just bought a new car for our two-person household, so the Prius is now the backup car, not a daily driver. It's also now parked outside at home, which has colder and wetter conditions. I'm making sure to drive it at least once a week to keep the batteries "exercised".
-My parents may move to a 2nd home for part of the year, and they like the Prius driveability, so I want to give it to them. But I'm worried if they drive infrequently or leave the car for months that they'll come back to a dead car. But if we go this route, I'd probably have Luscious Garage put in one of their rebuilt HV batteries for ~$2.5K all-in, and the Parking Lot syndrome would probably disappear along with that swap.
Click to expand...

Remember that the security system is drawing power from the 12V while the car is setting. I have found that my 2001 Prius ECU is very sensitive to the 12V battery power. I have had problems similar to what you describe and put a battery charger on the 12V battery until it is fully charged and the problems went away for months. Eventually the 12 V deteriorates and the problems return.

wwu123 · Dec 26, 2011

bobofky said: ↑

Remember that the security system is drawing power from the 12V while the car is setting. I have found that my 2001 Prius ECU is very sensitive to the 12V battery power. I have had problems similar to what you describe and put a battery charger on the 12V battery until it is fully charged and the problems went away for months. Eventually the 12 V deteriorates and the problems return.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion, I had given my car to my parents to use for the last nine months, but I have it back for the next three months. I had replaced the 12V battery a few years ago with one of those Optima spiral batteries, so I thought I was fairly good there (plus I monitored the battery voltage with Scangauge). Nonetheless my parents had some problem with the car a few months ago and the dealer said the 12V battery was no good and replaced the Optima.

The car will be sitting for weeks at a time outside in cold damp weather, and this time of year is ideal to see if the problem is gone now, with the 12V battery change. Unfortunately it's not a controlled test as my parents insisted in September that we replace the traction battery as well (done with a rebuilt battery at Luscious Garage).

I started a new thread with a different, likely unrelated problem - we now see fault codes after around 300-400 miles of continuous, highway driving. That's yet another mystery...

w2co · Mar 2, 2012

"The car will be sitting for weeks at a time outside in cold damp weather" That's not good for either battery, disconnect the negative of the 12V and pull the service plug for the hv pack. It will last longer, but I don't think weeks under these conditions is an option. Before you pull the plug, make sure your SOC is as high as possible. Try to drive the car once in a while to properly "cycle" the pack.

Triangle of death and scangauge

JJLINK Junior Member

vincent1449p Active Member

ChapmanF Senior Member

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