How much does it cost per month to charge the PIP?

We redid the kitchen lighting with LEDs - they are awesome. Traded 4 75W bulbs for 7 15W bulbs - more light and less electricity

 

While this is a good rule of thumb, it's not strictly true. Charging at 240V is more efficient. The losses at 120V is anywhere from 16% to 30%, whereas at 240V it's only 8% to 16%. If it's 3 kWh to fully recharge the battery on 120V, it might only be 2.5 kWh at 240V.

 

The # of kWh coming out of the wall into the car will be different depending on whether it's charged at 120 volts or 240, due to greater charging losses at 120.

 

We are charging at 7 cent / kWh here. 21 cent for a full charge of renewable hydro power is next to nothing IMO.

Gas price is 1.46$/Liter this week so it's equivalent to about 5.526$ a gallon.

PiP makes a lot of sense for us with cheap electricity and expensive gas.

I'm happy to give more money to Toyota and support better technology instead of wasting this money on foreign gas. And even if I do not save money in the long run, I know my money is in better hands.

 

Gas in our area is $3.95 we pay 12 cents per kWh. Given the recent cold snap 68:32 EV:HV ratio. While my EV range is down to 8.8 miles I am looking at a range of ~1000 miles per tank of gas.

 

I wasn't aiming for the nitty-gritty. Even if 240V saves you 10% (it doesn't), that's 108 kWh/year, or about $10 ~ $15/year. Guess I'll run out to Home Depot and drop $999 on a Leviton.

The savings of a 240V charger is that you charge in half the time, so if you re-charge in the middle of the day, you'll get more EV miles. Which is nice.

 

Your don't really get half the time...I see about 1.5 hrs with 240v and 2.5 hrs with 120v.

Mike

 

Of course, if your charging is throwing you into tier 3, 4, or even higher in CA, that savings might turn into $45-60/yr, but even then, you're right, it makes no sense.
Though it looks like if you buy the charger through amazon, it's only $750…so your charger payback will be about on par with your pip payback…lol.

 

^^^
For vehicles w/greater battery capacity (namely pure BEVs), not charging at 120 volts can make sense, from a payback POV, as has been pointed out me by a Leafer.

 

Home Depot sells them too.
Electric Car Chargers - Alternative Energy Solutions - Electrical at The Home Depot

 

I thought you guys up there are swimming in domestic oil and want to even export to us.
So, how come it is so expensive?

 

I think it's high taxes.

 

Oil is a global commodity, oil independence does not equal cheap gas. The only way around that is government price controls or new large oil reserves.

 

Studies removing taxes from the pump price of gasoline in Canada put the cost/gallon about the same as the cost in the US.
Oil is a worldwide commodity, the base price of it is the same worldwide. The only differences come in taxes and subsidies.
World oil prices hasn't dropped much as North America starts producing more oil as OPEC has been cutting their production.

 

There are two reasons for this price.
First, retired4999 is right. It's expensive mostly because of very high taxes.

Also, oil prices in Canada are not the same everywhere. While western provinces use WCS price index (Which is even lower than the WTI oil price index used in US), most of the eastern Canada oil come from Algeria and United Kingdom.
Why price discounts for Canadian crude are here to stay | Alberta Oil – Energy Sector Insight
http://alberta.ca/albertacode/images/Benchmark-Crude-Prices.pdf

These countries use the European "Brent" price index. And while the WTI oil is going down, the Brent keep increasing. That's why our gas price is so high.



There are plans to reverse some existing pipelines so we can refine western oil instead of the expensive Brent but there are big environmental opposition. (I'm not sure how pipeline transport could be dirtier than using a lot of big oil tankers from Algeria and UK but I am not an expert on the subject.)

On the other side, expensive gas make EV and plugins cars look like very good choices considering government subsidies and cheap hydropower. It's a carrot and stick approach.

 

The reason enviros are opposed is because cheaper oil will spur greater demand. It's not clear whether the net result is a benefit or a detriment to the environment, but that's the thinking.
It's the same reason we are opposed to the Keystone pipeline.

 

On average tax on gas is ~50 cents per gallon of gas. In the U.S. the revenue raised is used to build and maintain roads.
The Eason WTI price is dropping is the lack of infrastructure. The oil is stuck in the middle of the country where ther are no refineries.

By the way the reason for Keystone was to get the oil to ports for shipment to overseas markets whch are willing to pay a premium price for refined oil. Since it looks like keystone will not be approved some are suggesting sending the oil to California. Not sure California has sufficient refinery capacity.

 

Lol because California, a state that banned offshore drilling near its shores, is going to approve a massive oil pipeline? Yeah.
The argument still stands. People were against it because of a) spillage risks and b) desire to reduce, rather than expand, availability of oil.

 

I was not talking about the keystone pipeline but another already built Enbridge pipeline. Instead of transporting imported oil into Canada, the pipeline flow would be reversed to send domestic oil from Western Canada to consumers in Central Canada.

Quebec ‘Non’ looms over west-to-east pipeline gambit | Toronto Star

But I suppose it's the same kind of concerns as for the keystone project. I think it will be blocked here too. No matter where the oil comes from, it will always be dirty. But until technology evolve and everyone drive a EV, we have to choose the least worse option. If only Tesla could succeed to produce that 30K$ EV

 

Right, that was my point. I brought up the Keystone project just as an example.