Trying to make a logical argument with non believers - Frustrating at times

I think the very best arguments come from how trouble-free the 100,000 mile second owner who buys a used Prius for $10k or less. I created a post that people have offered awesome testimonials here: Did you buy a Prius with 100K+ miles? Share your story here! | PriusChat

Especially check out the post from TampaPrius.com | PriusChat who has sold 50 used Prius without any major problems except one...

 

i usually give them as much info as they are willing to accept, answer any questions they have and let them make their own decision. hybrids are great, but not for everybody. nothing wrong with a used civic. and if you do talk him into it, and the inverter goes on him, how will you feel? he should go into it with eyes wide open.

 

I'm a Prius owner and I disagree with you. If the Civic and Prius have similar miles and cost the same used, I absolutely would choose the Civic based on ROI. Everything that can fail in the Civic can also fail in the Prius. But Prius has one large component that can fail that the Civic doesn't have: the battery. So everything being equal except for battery replacement and fuel economy, you do the math. How much does he save on fuel economy over a battery replacement? My math shows that I won't reach parity until fuel costs exceed $8 a gallon. I'm using $3500 for battery replacement at 250k miles.

 

yes, there are many variables to roi, and each buyer has to do the calculations that apply to their situation.

 

you're probably correct, but, can you buy both for the same price?

 

Not true at all. The PSD in Toyota hybrids is completely different than anything found on a conventional car. It is a static fixed gearing of 2 electric motors and 1 engine in a planetary gearset. There is nothing to slip and nothing to clutch. Regenerative braking means the brakes will last hundreds of thousands of miles. My civic required new brakes every year, about 15K-20K miles of mixed driving. My Prius has most of the original brakes 7 years and 108K miles later. There are lots of things that are different and things that require fixing on a conventional car that just don't happen on a Toyota hybrid.

The Prius also has an inverter. Used inverter $250-$400. I found one on Craigslist locally for $1 while I was looking for completely unrelated things. Why is that important? The cost of used parts is directly related to the rate of failure. A high failure part in any car will cost more on the used market than a part that never fails. Salvage yards get smushed Prii every day because of accidents. Majority of parts on it are still good, and so there is so much supply for so little demand.

Same with the battery. The Toyota stealerships only charge $2200 for the battery, brand new from the factory. Add in 2 hours for labour and you are $1000 too high in your estimate. I am sure some stealerships will try to charge $4K for it, I have seen posts about it. But they don't really get anyone but the stupid people because everyone here laughs at the cost and points them towards a better dealership usually a few miles down the road. And how many people put in a brand spanking new transmission at 250K miles? Virtually nobody. Generally you rebuild the transmission. Just like you can get a rebuilt battery or a salvage battery. Salvage is again a few hundred dollars, rebuilt is close to $1500

 

I looked into a used Honda Civic before I bought my 05 Prius and the kicker for me was that the engine blocks on the Civics from 06-09 are very porous, will crack and leak anti-freeze. This usually happens when the cars have over 60k miles on them. Now, would anyone like to guess how much a new engine will cost? I'd rather take my chances with the hybrid battery.

 

The rear drum brakes still haven't been replaced yet on my Civic at 145k miles now. The second set of brake pads was just changed on the front discs. If you have proof that Prius brakes last 100,000's of miles. I'd like to see it. From what I said, do you think the average Civic brakes last 6 digit miles? If you look at one of the posts here about the Prius transmission, one of the experts quoted $4500 to $5000. If they truly last longer than a conventional automatic, that's great because I've never heard of automatic transmissions costing that much to replace on a Civic.

2 hours for battery replacement? I think you're being optimistic. My quote is based off of a battery replacement on a Civic Hybrid with 247k miles at the dealership, and they said it would take 2-3 days. If this a terrible basis for estimate, then please use your own numbers.

I'm not going to go into using salvaged parts or discussions about which brand is more reliable. The former because costs can approach free if you are resourceful enough and mechanically inclined. (Kid on craigslist bartered his way from cell phone to Porsche .) The latter because it is totally subjective. I'm not going to say one brand is more reliable than the other. For simplicity sake, my math assumes they are equally reliable

I don't dispute anything you say (besides the two hour battery installation) but you do your math. I do mine. My situation shows Civic has the advantage for lower costs. It may not to you or Op. it certainly is not a blanket statement that a Prius is less expensive to own.

 

Honda's used to be one of the best cars but they've had dreadfully low ratings in recent years and they just made big moves to change that. Meanwhile Toyota is quietly selling 25 to 30 thousand Prius a month in the USA alone for years and Honda owners pay nearly double at the pump everytime for life of the car. Most of them will say they're willing to pay tens of thousand of dollars more for gas over the life of their Honda because they're "worried about the Prius battery" which rarely fails before 200,000 and only cost a few thousand dollars to replace.

To me people who thinks a Honda is a better car are loyal to the nostalgia for the glory days that have long since passed Honda by. All the gangsters and drug addicts stealing Hondas to part 'em out all the time hasn't helped the brand either, though new security is recent years is putting an end to that era.

 

If you're keeping the car for two years, then the Prius is the clear leader. Hence.

Not everyone keeps a used car for 2 years.

If the battery never fails in a Prius then the Prius is the clear leader. I can't argue with that. Except the battery does fail. There's a few posts on PC about how to fix it.

 

While I am ecstatic that I bought my prius new and now have over 205,000 relatively trouble-free miles while averaging about 45 mpg, I also realize that people have a choice in what they purchase. What I think is the best and what may be best for me, may not be for someone else. All you can do is present the information as accurately and complete as possible but if they choose the Civic or even a 1970 Chevy Nova that gets 15mpg, it's their choice.
Bottom line... don't get frustrated, just enjoy your car.

 

My math shows parity at $1.03/gallon for 2010 models, $1.10/gal for 2008 models. How are you getting $8?

 

Mostly political the anti-green anti-Prius machine. The Republicans got alot of traction demonizing anything and everything that's green. Because they had to protect all the buddies in big oil who have been sending them gym bags full of cash. Still do. But luckily not enough traction to make a difference thank god. "Who Killed the Electric Car" is a classic. The political move almost killed GM. Alt least according to the GM COTB last year on 60 minutes.

If you spend any time on You Tube looking at Prius video's its non stop horseh*t about the batteries failing. And a Prius creates more pollution than making a Hummer. And just 5 years ago most of these idiots called Hybrid's a fad.

America needs a chair across the face.

 

Why not just let it go and enjoy your ride?

DBCassidy

 

Hmm, I'm not sure why you treat Prius ownership as a religion where there are believers and non-believers.

Personally I'd rather be quiet, avoid an argument, and just smile as I see the "non-believers" pay more at the fuel pump for their vehicle's gasoline consumption.

Prius has been around for 13 years, and if your non-believer friends haven't figured it out by now, why waste your time.

 

Only higher gas prices will convince some to look at more efficient cars like Prius, PIP, Volt, etc..

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