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My first attempt at hypermiling = FAIL

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by Joe-G, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    Easy to try and will help overall mpg if this happens everday :-(
    Not a super expert BUT there are two major issues...in layman terms.

    1. without modifying the software this probably will not work too well since the car computer is measuring energy flow in/out rather than "real" battery SOC so you probably would not be able "store" more energy, and I am sure the engineering issues are beyond a DYI. Of course I do not know your background (I am an EE and I would not attempt this without a lot of further studies)

    2. unless you "store" regenerated energy I mean you have a lot of downhills... even a properly hacked larger pack will not help that much. Most likely hurt because all your "stored" electricity will come from gasoline so you were pushing the ICE needlessly. Very little range where the ICE produces too much energy and the surplus is available to be "stored". Pretty optimized...

    I am sure if I am totally wrong someone will correct me.

    One solution exist for a while that an additional battery kit which is charged by the grid rigged to the traction battery and the its electronics keep charging it. I was interested in it for a while but realized it not worth the money (for me) also was concern that the non PIP prius is NOT designed for extended EV mode.

    But of course your question has merrit.
     
  2. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    ^^^ good points... I'm a CPA so certainly not an expert in this by any means.
    But that might explain my personality of measuring, improving, measuring...:LOL:
     
  3. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    Anyway at your first post I HAD NO clue what Vette was refering to :)

    But I must say someone who drives apparently quite well an american mussle car and then purchase a japanese high-tech hybrid ... maybe a leaf could have beaten that ... at least no worries running out of gas :)

    just for interest I just finished a tank MFD showed 55.9 avg MPH 15 calculated 52.4 MPG it was 521.5 driving about 20 mile after 0 mte ... and I could put in 9.943 gal so I could have drive home another 20 but would have no difference forget to take picture
     
  4. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    Yes my buddy (with a 610 rwhp Z06) runs a Nissan store and drives a leaf everyday...they were offering some super lease deals last year but the 70 mile real world range at 70 mph on the highway was a deal killer for me. I drive 64 or more everyday.

    He loves it though. I think he has gone 100 miles on a tank,...but unlike me he'll drive so slow on the highway to prove a point.
     
  5. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    That video made me all nostalgic. Damn nice shifting! A 1.4 60' is killer in a manual. My best was a 1.51 and than was in an A4 with a 4400 Yank converter and 3:73 gears. Again, very nice!

    Back on topic....... :p
     
  6. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    If your daily commute 64 mile that is probably not enough to have a LOT of saving but some. Even if you drive 70mph if you would do the same with any other car your saving could be substantial ... How does your corvette do with the same driving ??? just curious (I do not know if you would drive your corvette to work daily )...

    I do calculate several things by a spreadsheet amont real saving compared to a 30 mpg car ... (using the miles and gas prices) I know that my insurance about half paid by the savings.
     
  7. kenoarto

    kenoarto Senior Member

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    "at 65 on the FL Turnpike you really cause a traffic disruption even in the slow lane! It's 70+ required on that road in the morning" is absolutely wrong. Speed limit is a LIMIT. Period.

     
  8. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    F8L...didn't know you are a GM man! 4400 Yank is a big hoss...was it in an F body or Vette?

    The vette is light and I've got 4:10's and z51 package with a 2.97 first which helps me get off the line. But thanks for the kind words!

    Szgabor, until I got the Prius I daily drove the Vette since new. I have a spreadsheet of every gallon of fuel put in it...it gets 20-22 on my daily drive even with 4:10's. I got a new job a couple of years ago and the express lane fees are killing me with their variable rates. Hybrids ride free in the express lanes...I smiled like a Cheshire Cat last Friday when I saved $13.50 thanks to the Prius. I save enough on fuel and tolls to pay the Prius payments. I bought it used.

    If you guys liked that check out my in car at the Miami mile, an event on a 10,000 foot runway off Tamiami trail.



    That's 185 mph @ 6800 redline with my 4:10 gears and 345/30/19 tires.
     
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  9. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    Lol do you drive it everyday like I do?

    Driving slower than traffic and causing people to make frequent and abrupt lane changes to avoid you makes you a traffic hazard.
     
  10. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    sorry that is just an excuse ..... you are not any hazard if you would drive a steady 65 or even a 60. Those who speed up and take over for just one car lenght ... they are the hazard.... You simply rationalizing why you also "need" to go faster merely 5 mph different is hardly a hazard 20 mph YES (and I am sure you know this ... of course this is just MY opinion everyone else entitled to theirs)

    But of course, you drive your way and others theirs.. but you will NOT hypermiling at 70+ mph not even with the prius...

    Let me add at my daily commute, about 50 mile a day, the highest posted limit is 50 mph for about 8 miles each way, then 40 mph for about another 8 miles rest is 30 mph city driving :-(
     
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  11. vday

    vday Member

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    I wish I got those MPG - not bad at all.
    BTW What is the red brake light on the screen - never saw it on my European Model (2010)
     
  12. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    I use my parking brake when I park the car, when it is applied the light turns on. I was at the gas station when I took that picture.
     
  13. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Heh.... I had a 287 hp 04 350Z alongside my Prius until mid-2011, when I sold it. :/ Not nearly as fast or as powerful as the Vettes mentioned.

    10.81 in the 1/4 mile is crazy fast vs. virtually all stock street legal cars. (I've taken my Z and another car before to a drag strip to do 1/4 mile runs, so I have a pretty good sense of fast vs. slow.)

    Cool the OP has a C6. The interior was a big improvement over the Tupperware interiors of the earlier gens.
     
  14. Codyroo

    Codyroo Senior Member

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    I wouldn't say it is a Failed first attempt. Given your commute conditions, you didn't do badly at all.

    Try reducing your highway speed gradually. Start your commute and keep the cruise control at 70 mph. After a week, reduce it to 69 mph. Repeat until you are down to 65 mph. It will give you time to acclimate to people passing you on the left.

    The psychology of driving slower is much harder than people expect. As a species, I suspect it is a survival instinct to "keep up with the pack". It is hard to overcome it.
     
  15. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    On the stretch of my drive that is 70+, it's really 70+. The FL Turnpike flies when there is no traffic and you really do cause problems when you go slower.

    So I'm not going to be "that guy" putting along in the slow lane causing dump trucks to try to pass me, which takes them a long time, which makes everyone else go to the far lane to get around him, etc. :LOL:

    One benefit (perhaps not to some) is that in FL it's very seldom that police radar. Thus, typical driving speeds are usually above posted limits, and the "pack" of drivers move along say 10 above the limit. I drove in the Midwest where I'm from last summer...cops patrolling every few miles like I recall growing up, and I noticed how "the pack" was running right at the speed limit or so. Felt like I was crawling.

    Miami is NY South and Cuba Norte, things move fast here.;)
     
  16. Codyroo

    Codyroo Senior Member

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    Alternatively, you could try to find the person driving closest to 70 mph (or slower) in the right lane and plant yourself 2 seconds behind him. That way it isn't "your fault" that the slow lane is going so slow, you are just a victim of circumstance. Truckers are even better because the move a large volume of air and lower your own wind resistance.
     
  17. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    I would like that add that thanks to the tips here, I'm at 56.8 on this tank, 250 miles in or so.

    Even with my daredevil 70+ speeds when conditions warrant.

    However, today in my 3 miles of total stop and go, I tried my best to keep the battery up but I just could not..I started with 5 bars and down to 2 after two miles...then the engine ran for nearly the final mile even while sitting as the SOC was only 2 bars. I noticed the Cons go down by .6 during this time...

    What is the best plan for 3+ miles of total stop and go? (besides finding another route...that's not an option:()
     
  18. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    Hmm, yes, that's possible, but frankly with such a long commute every day and long hours at work, my time with my kids is so limited, that I'm not going to sacrifice even 10 minutes with them for saving a couple of MPG. If I can go at a reasonable pace I'm going to do it.

    But I appreciate the thoughts!

    And you'll be glad to know I cut myself off at 89 mph every time...I didn't cross the 90 mph threshold. It's not uncommon to see folks cruising at 90 on the turnpike BTW. The local paper did a big expose of off duty cops going 100+ after requesting the toll booth data under our sunshine laws. That highway really moves.

    p.s. My lifetime mileage is still 50+ even including my drag strip runs and jaunts up to near triple digits at times. So overall I'm quite happy with the car.
     
  19. Codyroo

    Codyroo Senior Member

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    You'd probably pick up another 0.5 to 1 mpg without that 3 mile construction area.

    Stop and go is a killer on the prius battery state of charge (SOC), and it is difficult to keep portions like that from dropping the battery down to 1 bar and requiring the car's engine to kick on to recharge it.

    However, if you can, you may try to see if you can pulse and glide this portion. You have to be disciplined enough to not tailgate the car in front of you. You have to let them get far enough ahead that drivers in other lanes will be tempted to jump into your lane....that's how you know it is big enough...when you are panicked that this big a gap is too inviting to cars next to you.

    Once the gap is big enough, you pulse up (in the gas zone....the second big bar) for about 4 - 5 seconds if possible to start overtaking the car in front of you. You can watch the brake lights ahead to predict when you need to let off the gas.

    Next - Glide, either foot all the way off (if you are going to fast and may need to brake) or with a little pressure such that you don't see a bar on either side. Coast until the cars in front of you are pulling away and you have a gap again.

    If traffic is such that it is creeping along at sub 5 mph speeds, you'll likely still drain the battery. If traffic gets up to 10 - 12 mph, you can really improve your overall mpg in this area.
     
  20. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    That's a good tip...I will see what I can do with that, thanks for posting. It is a better tip than you realize because 1/2 or more of the 3 miles is single lane highway entrance ramp so nobody can sneak in. People behind me might honk, but I'll deal with that if it comes. My Cadillac horns will bleat right back at them. :LOL:

    Now days with everyone texting while driving people are used to and more forgiving about letting gaps open, at least in my experience.

    This is a situation where I could really use a second traction battery...I have to think if I just ran them in parallel it'd use both evenly until both are dead and similarly, charge both until they are full.

    I'll have to post up a separate thread on that.