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My first attempt at hypermiling = FAIL

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by Joe-G, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    I like to challenge myself to obtain the most performance out of my cars...I've whittled down my quarter mile time in my 6 speed manual Vette to consistent 10.8's @ 128 with 475 rwhp which is much quicker than guys with substantially more power (500-600 rwhp is easy these days and Vettes weigh around 3200, similar to a Prius).

    So I watched Bob Nagy's video and learned about P&G, inflated my tires to 44 and figured I'd give it a shot. I see guys in the 500-600 mile tank clubs with average speeds similar to my 34-37 mph, so why can'tI.

    Well, results are a FAIL as seen below. Tried to go 500 miles, drove 15 miles with a blinking fuel gauge, finally filled up with 8 mte, 490.4 miles on tank, 34 avg mph, loaded 9.559 gallons for a 51.3 average. :-(

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Any further tips from you hypermilers?

    My drive every day is 34 miles each way, super slow due to construction for 3 miles (I usually wear my battery down during this section forcing the ice to idle), fast highway for 10 miles, 70 mph to avoid being a hazard, then 15 miles of 50-60 highway, then 2 miles of city that moves quickly.

    I stay out of the power mode nearly always and use stealth glide when I am able to keep up with traffic doing it.

    Are you hypermilers guys going 55 max in the slow lane? I'm not going to do that.

    But I'm open to any other tips please!
     
  2. dhendriksen

    dhendriksen Junior Member

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    I'm interested in this as well...

    DROID RAZR HD ? 2
     
  3. cmezriczky

    cmezriczky Junior Member

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    DonĀ“t wear down the battery. After all Prius is a hybrid, not an EV. Wearing down the battery will make the ICE reload the battery afterwards, leading to higher consumption...
     
  4. Corwyn

    Corwyn Energy Curmudgeon

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    This forum is FULL of hypermiling suggestions. Keep reading.
     
  5. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    With fast moving city traffic it is hard to perform long glides before traffic signals and stop signs. That is key to really high fuel economy.

    In most cases I don't see why you can't do 65mph instead of 70mph on most freeways. 5mph makes a pretty big difference once you get over 55mph.

    Don't try to pulse & glide until you know about how to do it properly. Just focus on gliding to every stop using no engine power and almost no EV power. That is where you will see the biggest gains.

    It takes time to learn the Prius and figure out how to maximize fuel economy for your commute. Don't stress if you don't get it right away. What tires are you running?
     
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  6. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    I forgot to add, drive like a maniac on this same trip and crank up the AC and compare that mpg to your attempt at hypermiling with no AC (or turns way down). That will help you gauge your progress. :)
     
  7. lizardacres

    lizardacres Junior Member

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    On the weekends when I'm running errands I do 70 on the freeway and it's a mileage killer. But when commuting where I live, 70 is dangerous as there are bottlenecks and it's slow and go and then everybody slams on their brakes, and I feel much safer sticking to 55-60 mph max and I get way better mileage to boot.
     
  8. Sfcyclist

    Sfcyclist Senior Member

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    still not bad! you're close! I haven't faired so well.
     
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  9. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    Fl8 thanks for chiming in...you give a lot of good advice around here. It took me a few years to learn to drag race my vette as well as I can. But I've passed along what I've learned to many and shortened their learning curve so I appreciate your thoughts (and those of others).
    A couple of things.

    I have stock Bridgestone tires. They are getting long in the tooth so I will be buying the ones you recommend in your sticky.

    I might try 65, you are correct about not a big difference. I notice a big mpg hit in my wife's odyssey on trips at 80 vs 70.

    Could you expand on how to p&g? I get up to speed relatively quickly then let off the gas fully then get back in, only enough to maintain speed, trying to stay below the 1/2 line when possible or as close there to. Am I doing it wrong?

    Oh and I'm at 57mpg at 139 miles in on this tank..so I'm thinking I will keep with it!

    Appreciate further thoughts from all.
     
  10. Chaloney

    Chaloney Junior Member

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    Joe-G, this is essential reading for pulse and glide in the gen 3 prius

    HSI
     
  11. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Thanks, Joe. That means a lot from a veteran forum guy. :)

    First, you're doing great overall so don't get frustrated.

    What you describe is not pulse & glide. That is the correct technique for typical efficient driving so keep using it. However, pulse & glide is a technique in which you accelerate (pulse) up to 45mph (GenIII) while keeping RPM steady at between 1,500 and 1,800 (3/4 of the HSI display). Upon reaching 45mph you reduce throttle input quickly and reapply just enough throttle to induce a glide (HSI bar showing energy in the first 1/4, or less, of the Eco section). You then glide while allowing your speed to drop down to 25mph (or whatever works for your situation) at which point you pulse back up to 45mph. Obviously this only works in situations where there is no traffic and you have time to kill because your average speed will be about 35mph. However, a few pulse & glide cycles every now and then can make a big difference in your overall tank mpg


    Display while pulsing
    image.jpg

    Display while gliding
    image.jpg
     
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  12. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    ^^^ ahh I understand. I typically don't have space to run it down to 25 (or, frankly, patience) so I probably won't do that.
     
  13. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    That is some great reading...should be a sticky or at least included in Bob Nagy's video thread (maybe it is, but I don't recall seeing it).

    Anyway, great reading for a new Prius owner interested in maximizing mileage. Thanks for sharing!:)
     
  14. ImeanGreen

    ImeanGreen Prius v Five BP Brigade #236

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    Joe G, the sweet spot for the prius is between 50-55 mph. Outside temperature and terrain makes a big difference too. Try using cruise control at 65 mph. The computer reacts/adjust faster that what you see and how you control your foot pedal. BTW, i'm always in eco mode and getting 55 to 56 per gallon without hypermiling.
     
  15. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    Good info. I gave the cruise control a try at 65 today in my open road section of my drive, but at 65 on the FL Turnpike you really cause a traffic disruption even in the slow lane! It's 70+ required on that road in the morning.

    I'm focusing now and learning a lot about how the hybrid system works thanks to the tips here and the link above..it's very helpful, a must read I think. I'm at 56.5 after the drive this morning, from 57 last night.

    Good thing is here in S. Fl for commuting you rarely need AC - sunroof open is pleasant, and its flatter than Kansas, so I should get good mileage even going 70+ when I have to.

    I noticed the cruise control didn't ever go into power mode, but it did go right up there. I might try this tank without cruise and next tank with and see if it makes a difference.
     
  16. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    I do not see how this is relevant ??? but hey good
    This is not bad at first attempt and as you can see you had at least another 50 miles in the tank (easily 75 if it was really full before hand) BUT that is little bit risky !!! So do it only if you understand what happens if you run out of gas and your fuel pump etc. I drove about 60 miles after 0 mte when I got the 604 miles ... and only could fill in 10.5 gal :)

    Also as morning/evening time temp increases you will get better up until the 90s are coming and you start using A/C (that is about 3mpg in my experience but usually only the evening time rarely did I need A/C in the morning) ... air density makes a huge difference with your 34 avg mph mine is btw 14-16 avg mph :-(

    Well during slow section when you are not sure that you will make it ONLY on battery try what usually described is driving under load make sure the ICE is going but not too hard just over the middle line under the ECO label especially when you are under 3 bars.. (you can do mini pulse and glide) ... the worst thing is to have the ICE running and not moving

    power mode makes no difference really (except warm up time) just makes the go pedal more responsive ... that is all. I find it much easier in city traffic to use PWR and I am getting even better mpg ... depending on your driving style ECO may actually counterproductive by needing more movement to let "off"...
     
  17. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    Aye and if you cannot cover more than twice the distance with a glide than you did with the pulse then it is not worth doin. That's why P&G on the freeway doesn't work. Your speed differential is too small and wind resistance slows you down too fast. :)
     
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  18. Chaloney

    Chaloney Junior Member

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    On the freeway the glides shold be in what they call super highway mode. Hsi in the first quarter above the midline. Rpm end up 1000-1200. Mpg around 75-85 for extended stretches. Pulse back up to speed in the high end of the hsi. I try to keep mpg at or above 50 during the highway pulses. U have to get comfortable with other cars passing you and I think that may be joes biggest challenge especially with his corvette background. If there are other lanes, they have every option to pass you. Don't be one of the speed crazy lemmings that cause most if not all of our traffic problems.

    More interesting reading:
    TRAFFIC WAVE EXPERIMENTS

    A bit more on topic:
    Understanding Contents

    Especially this part:
    Whats Going On As I Drive?
     
  19. Joe-G

    Joe-G Member

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    I mention my Vette experience to give you a flavor as to my persistence in achieving a goal. I really like to obtain the most performance (gas mileage is performance in the Prius) out of a given car. I am known in the Corvetteforum world as having a magic stock clutch... I have 494 launches at 5000-6000 rpm and 72,000 daily driving stop and go miles...people think the clutch is magic or I'm magic. I'm not, just meticulous about finding the proper way to operate a clutch for high performance (and keeping fluid clean).

    For fun here's an in car view of a 1.4 60 foot launch if you're interested.



    I don't think I'll have the nerve to run my tank that dry! I'm currently #3 quickest in the country in the 1/4 mile (at least on Corvetteforum) for a manual n/a LS2 Vette...took me a while to get there, but my lack of desire to go < 70 mph or run my tank that dry will mean I likely will not ever make the similar Prius list I'm realizing!:( That said I enjoy a challenge so I'm listening to everyone's tips and will incorporate as appropriate into my driving style. BTW when I say Power mode I mean the upper range of the HSI, I try to stay out of that. I always have the gas pedal in the "eco" mode, I find it easier to modulate. Coincidentally, I had a friend retune the throttle map in my Vette to be MORE responsive for heel and toe downshifting on the road course...funny that the Prius comes with the pedal response user selectable whereas the Vette is tuned so sluggish from the factory it's tough to heel and toe. I guess that's for Vette owners whose high heels cause the power delivery to be too strong. :LOL:

    So thanks for the tips, particularly that tip about not running the battery completely dry. I can count on 3 miles of stop and go first thing in my drive due to construction (for the last three years and no end in sight). Sometimes at the end the engine will run while not moving or moving just a tiny bit to charge the battery. I'll run the engine a little in the stop and go to keep the battery from going dry if I see it's a long stop and go ahead.

    I have a question for a new thread, but perhaps someone here knows, has anyone bought a traction battery from a junkyard and piggybacked it in parallel to give twice the range on battery? If I had twice the range on battery it would help in my drive.


    Turns out I do the "super highway glide"...on the highway I try to keep the HSI in the lower 1/3 of the range, I can feel when the engine revs up. Tough to keep up speed at that mode but I do the best I can.

    And you are correct, I'm not comfortable when cars come up on my bumper and pass, one after another - I tried it this morning and finally just sped up to 70-75 to keep up with traffic. I never lead a pack of traffic, even in the Vette, but I run with traffic.

    Thanks for the other tips, I will read them. I'm very excited to learn more about this car...the technology in the Prius just astounds me. I'm used to tuning the computer in my Vette so I'm not that easily impressed..but this car does impress me.
     
  20. Sabby

    Sabby Active Member

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    It is a bit hard to tell what is going on without a Scanguage. It also makes the quest for high efficiency more fun.
    You should think about getting one.

    You can observe the warmup stages, track engine rpm, engine power level, charging and electric motor amp use.

    PS. Thanks for sharing the run in the vette