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Questions - using a 120v power inverter (1000W)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Tekdeus, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. Tekdeus

    Tekdeus Shifted to Green

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    Hi folks, I'm going on a long road trip next week with many camping spots in mind. I'll be installing a Bestek 1000w power inverter directly to the battery with a 150amp circuit breaker and 4 AWG wiring. The plan was to use this to run a blender, etc, plus charging various devices such as camcorder packs while driving around. I may also run a stereo and some lights for the occasional evening.

    My concern is the potential of forgetting the power inverter is on, since it is not hooked up to a relay and will be connected directly to the battery. I've read that it will automatically shut down around 11.7 volts, and was wondering if this would hurt the Prius battery or prevent it from starting? Since many of my devices take 4-6 hours to charge, it would be nice to be able to continue charging in between driving times, but not hurt the Prius battery in the process. Just wondering if anyone has experience with a scenario such as this one. Any advice would help, thanks!
     
  2. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    The number one question has to be how old is the 12 volt battery in you Prius and is it an OEM battery or other such as Optima.
    The OEM battery does not take deep discharge well, so taking it down to 11.7 volts is not a good idea. The 150 amp breaker sounds over the top, 1000 watts at 12 volts = 83 amps so 100 amp breaker should cover easily. It would be much more efficient to charge the camcorder ect from a charger designed to run from 12 volts. If the largest load is the blender why use a 1000 watt inverter 300 watts should be enough. Knowing the wattage of all the devices you wish to use or the current drawn would be helpful.
    The best way to protect the battery is to always leave the Prius in ready mode and in park, you will be surprised how little fuel it will use.

    John (Britprius)
     
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  3. Tekdeus

    Tekdeus Shifted to Green

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    Thanks for the reply, I replaced the OEM battery 2-3 years ago, and it has never been discharged so far. Where can you get DC-DC chargers? The blender is 600 watts. The inverter is 1000w with 2000w peak, and figured it would be a handy backup power source during power outages in the future.

    How much gas does the Prius use idling? I think most campsites inhibit running generators after 10pm for noise.
     
  4. ftl

    ftl Explicator

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    I'd also recommend no more than a 100A circuit breaker. Ideally this would have a manual off position so that you could use it to disconnect the inverter from the battery. Alternatively you could use a quick disconnect between the battery and the inverter.

    If you leave devices connected to the inverter while the car is off you stand a good chance of running down the 12V battery.
     
  5. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    If the blender is 600 watts you will need the 1000 watt inverter, thats some blender over 3/4 horse power. I think if you read the post below it will give you some idea of how much fuel the Prius uses in this mode. Remember the Prius will not idle continuously.
    Powering an LCD TV?

    John (Britprius)
     
  6. ftl

    ftl Explicator

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    The guy with the TV said he used about 30 cents worth of gas in four hours with the car at Ready. This ties in with my experience running a small inverter last year after Sandy, which used just about the same.
     
  7. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    As a rough guide at full load on a Prius battery in new condition fully charged. You will have about 25 minutes of use from the Prius battery before it becomes fully discharged (10.6 volts).
    If your inverter cuts out at 11.7 volts I think you will have at the very most 10 to 12 minutes of use considering the voltage sag the battery will have under an 80 + amp load. This is if you have the larger of the two batteries fitted in the Prius "SKS version" the smaller version of the battery will last 8 to 10 minutes.

    John (Britprius)
     
  8. Tekdeus

    Tekdeus Shifted to Green

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    25 minutes of use at full battery output? I was only thinking of maybe a max of 100watts for charging laptop, phones, and camcorder while driving around, but possibly leaving it on during lunch or for a couple of hours to finish charges. I did buy a voltmeter so I would carefully watch the voltage if I try that. I'm pretty sure the inverter has a small draw when not running at full output, and scales up current draw based on 120v loads.
     
  9. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    *sigh!*
    Either the search function in this forum really sux or I'm just not that bright.

    Bob Wilson did a thread on a 1kw inverter install that was rather detailed to say the least.

    I tried to do a search and came up with:
    PriusChat
    No results found.


    Find it.
    It will be worth your time.
     
  10. Tekdeus

    Tekdeus Shifted to Green

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    Is that his user name? Perhaps I can find it through that. Thanks
     
  11. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    I was not trying to alarm you just point out the maths. A 100 watts "allowing for losses" will draw about 10 amps, so in one hour more than 25% of the batteries total capacity when new, but 50% of it's design discharge capacity will be used.
    Different manufacturers give different levels of discharge as being deep discharge below which you should not go for battery longevity, this is usually between 50 and 70% of capacity but more typically 50%.
    It is well documented here on PC that the OEM battery does not recover well from deep discharges. The reason we recommend leaving the Prius in ready mode in this sort of use.
    The inverter will use some current to drive it's own circuitry including a cooling fan and the conversion from 12 volts dc to 120 ac will also have losses probably in the region of 5%.
    Chargers for running laptops camcorders phones etc from 12 volts are readily available and involve a lot less in the way of electrical losses in converting 12 dc to 120ac back to around 16 volts dc (for a laptop) or 12 volt dc for a camcorder,
    5 volts dc for phones and and tablets. Rechargeable blenders are also available for drinks etc. All at less cost than a 1000 watt inverter, though I appreciate you may already have this.

    John (Brtprius)
     
  12. FreydNot

    FreydNot Member

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  13. SteveLee

    SteveLee Active Member

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    I have left it in Ready mode while parked with the AC or heater, depending on time of year, and stereo for several hours at a time the difference in average MPG for the tank was 2-3 mpg. The fuel use is not noticeable on the gauge. As for noise, the Prius is whisper quiet. I doubt any other campers would hear it.
     
  14. dorunron

    dorunron Senior Member

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    If you don't want to run the ICE to keep the 12 volt from running down in the Prius, you might consider carrying a bigger deep cycle battery that is fully charged to run the inverter off of.

    Whatever you do, don't think about running the inverter without the Prius in ready mode if you connect it directly to the battery. As other's have stated, the little battery will lose it's charge quickly. After that, you will need a jump and probably a new battery unless it is a deep cycle type of battery. The OEM battery is not a deep cycle battery, even though it is a AGM type.

    I do agree that the Prius will not use a excessive amount of fuel to keep the inverter running when in "ready" mode. However the ICE will cycle on and off fairly regular if you are running a heavy load on that inverter. However it should more economical than a traditional generator and by far quieter. It would be a good idea to make sure the emergency brake is set and functioning properly and also to make certain that the exhaust fumes what little there is does not contaminate the sleeping areas.

    Enjoy the trip and be safe.
     
  15. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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  16. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    If your camping alot I would buy a portable jumpstart as its pretty easy to kill the little 12 volt agm. There so cheap now. All you need is the smallest one they make. Think how difficult it would be to get a jumpstart if you did kill that battery by mistake. It's pretty easy.

    And I would never allow the Inverter to run without the car in ready. Just use a long ac cord to get way from the car's minor exhaust and noise of the engine.
     
  17. Tekdeus

    Tekdeus Shifted to Green

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    The camping trip with the inverter worked well, however, it got close to freezing a couple of nights and we ran a 600 watt electric heater in the tent while sleeping, causing the engine to run every 6 minutes or so to keep up with the current load. I noticed the 12v battery seemed a little weak today, I'm concerned that perhaps this load for such long periods was more than the recharging system could keep up with properly. Everything seemed fine during the trip, it just seemed a little weak today (I was pumping the brake with the car in accessory mode, and heard the brake vacuum pump slowly decreasing in pitch, as if the current was dropping). Is there a way to refresh or de-scale the OEM battery, in case it took a hit during this trip?
     
  18. dorunron

    dorunron Senior Member

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    Might not be a bad idea to run the standard test with the mfd. Link in my signature file in case you forgot how. You mentioned a month ago that the battery is 2 to 3 years old. Not sure what you have now, but that is where I would start. I think it would be normal to hear the pump sound change since you were not in "Ready" mode, but rather running off of the 12 volt. If in doubt, run the test...

    Glad to hear the trip was uneventful.
     
  19. DavidDh

    DavidDh New Member

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    Most of the things are dependent on how powerful your battery is......... you have even 500W inverter, it will work but if battery has not much power what will the inverter do?
     
  20. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

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    I doubt that a 600-watt blender would work with a 1000-watt inverter. Electric motors require a large inrush of power to start -- depending on the design of the motor that inrush would be two to three times the rated wattage. Inverters are best suited to steady loads, like computer power supplies, charging cell phones, lunch box oven, etc. The most important thing for any inverter installation is to use suitably heavy wire from the battery to the inverter. In my own installation of a 750-watt inverter I mounted it right next to the battery with No. 4 stranded copper. An extension cord moves the 110-volt power to the cabin of the car where I use the power to make coffee (Keurig single cup coffee maker), heat soup (300-watt 3 cup crock pot), rice cooker (Wolfgang Puck 3 cup). I also charge cordless batteries for tools, run a drill, etc.
     
  21. DavidDh

    DavidDh New Member

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    We should know how much power a particular device or appliance uses.

    Ceiling Fan: 25W
    Clothes Dryer: 1000W
    Coffee Maker: 800W
    Cordless Drill Charger: 70W
    Desktop Computer: 100W
    Home Air Conditioner: 1000W
    Fridge / Freezer: 150W
    25" colour TV: 150W
     
  22. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

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    I doubt that a 600-watt blender would work with a 1000-watt inverter. Electric motors require a large inrush of power to start -- depending on the design of the motor that inrush would be two to three times the rated wattage. Inverters are best suited to steady loads, like computer power supplies, charging cell phones, lunch box oven, etc. The most important thing for any inverter installation is to use suitably heavy wire from the battery to the inverter. In my own installation of a 750-watt inverter I mounted it right next to the battery with No. 4 stranded copper. An extension cord moves the 110-volt power to the cabin of the car where I use the power to make coffee (Keurig single cup coffee maker), heat soup (300-watt 3 cup crock pot), rice cooker (Wolfgang Puck 3 cup). I also charge cordless batteries for tools, run a drill, etc.