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Featured March 2016 Dashboard

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I am not trying to figure out what Autoline is talking about right now...I think they are probably building an argument about the 54.5 CAFE. I suppose if you say Tesla S/X are luxury vehicles, hold those aside, and say how do EV sales look? Hmm...the whole segment down hybrids get no subsidy and no respect, losing sales to high subsidies on Plug-ins especially in CA via free HOV. Take away $7500 Fed subsidy and free HOV in CA and what do we got? A struggling green car segment.
     
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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    You bring up a good point. We know Toyota, possibly Ford, have no credits. We really need to understand who has or will have any credits remaining?
    • Hyundai
    • Kia
    • Nissan
    • e.t.c.
    Anyone know a source of remaining Federal credits?

    Bob Wilson
     
  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    [rant on]
    I don't understand. Plug-ins are the fastest growing segment of the auto market.
    I'm sure you can go ... lets take the leader - tesla off, and it doesn't look good, but why would you do that? That is like saying lets take toyota off of hybrids or vw off of diesels.

    What do the subsidies get? Well falling battery prices which pressures future oil prices. In 2014 oil was the biggest outflow of ballance of trade. We could just hand the keys to saudi arabia and russia and have them run the US, but ...

    Sure there are lots of people that want to abolish cafe and even tax plug-ins more and keep gas taxes way bellow levels to maintain infrastructure. I can't see that as a good argument.

    Tesla and GM should be done with the full subsidy sometime in 2018. Nissan probably 2019. By then battery prices will be lower. Why do we want to increase US oil consumption and imports again? I don't get it.

    OK yes if you take away subsidies and tax plug-ins more sales will go down, and car companies will stop making them. We know how to cause oil price spikes and lines at gas stations. Perhaps we should get rid of the editorializing against hybrid and plug-in cars.
    [rant off] [sarcasm on]
    ExxonMobil CEO Relieved It Finally Too Late To Do Anything About Climate Change - The Onion - America's Finest News Source
     
  4. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I sure hope so. AND - with the RAV doing so well - it makes me wonder how a plugin version would do. Especially when (world wide, but not the U.S.) the Mitsu Outlander kicks arss sales wise. The rave would totally devistate the outlander plugin market.
    .
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    We agree with the goal embedded in the question. The challenge is how to accomplish it.

    Subsidies are an easy target and limited. Then as they succeed, their costs go up until the limit . . . and then the subsidy crashes. We need a smoother, more stable system that continues over decades.

    Another approach would be a manufacturer tax based upon vehicle MPG. Lower the MPG, higher the tax on the MSRP price. This tax brings purchase of cheap, inefficient vehicles to be price competitive with efficient vehicles. As the market moves towards more efficient vehicles, the tax automatically goes down. For example, let us accept the false but common 'hybrid premium', comparison:
    • Corolla vs Prius -> $4,000 (the usual suspects claim)
    • Load the Corolla with options found stock on base Prius -> $2,000 (alloy wheels, spoiler, e.t.c.)
    • (Prius Eco 56 - Corolla Eco 35 MPG) / Prius Eco 56 = 21 / 56 = 37.5%
    • Corolla Eco 'guzzler' tax = $2,000 * 37.5% = $750 -> $2,000 - $750 -> $1250 cheaper Corolla
    I used simple math to demonstrate the principle. There are a family of functions that could be used to tailor the 'guzzler tax.' Regardless, the goal is to tax cheap, inefficient cars to bring them closer in purchase price to an efficient vehicle.

    Yes, you could still buy a 35 MPG Corolla Eco but the tax will bring it up within spittin' distance of a midsize Prius. You can buy anything you want but after taxes, it will cost closer to the most efficient vehicle in that class.

    The advantage of this scheme:
    • No limit - it runs without a cut-off threshold
    • Inflation effects built-in
    • Still leaves cheap, inefficient vehicles on the market but not so cheap as before
    • Reduces the number of tax participants to manufacturers and IRS
    The only down side is it gives limited motivation to improve the peak-performing vehicles. To do so impacts the manufacturers down-scale vehicles. Of course it does provide a competitive advantage over the 'honorable competition.' It also accelerates moving fuel efficiency into the down-scale models.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #25 bwilson4web, Apr 14, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: EV and Hybrid Loyalty Falls to All-Time Low, Even as Overall Fuel Economy Thrives, Says Edmunds.com

    A detailed analysis of Edmunds' vehicle trade-in data tells a story of many hybrid and EV owners jumping from one extreme to another. In fact, Edmunds found that a hybrid or electric trade-in is more likely to go toward the purchase of a SUV (33.8 percent) than another hybrid or EV. The trend is even more apparent when looking only at EV trade-ins — 25.7 percent of EV trade-ins went toward the purchase of a SUV, compared to just 4.8 percent that went toward another EV.

    Vehicles Purchased in Connection with a Hybrid or EV Trade-in
    Segment 2015 2016
    1 Hybrid or EV 38.5% 27.5%
    2 SUV 29.0% 33.8%
    3 Truck 4.1% 5.3%
    4 Compact/Subcompact Car 8.9% 12.1%
    5 Luxury 11.1% 11.5%

    *2016 data consists of 5,724 hybrid and EV trade-ins captured through the end of March

    "The overwhelming popularity of SUVs trumps just about any other trend in today's market," says Caldwell. "SUV sales are up 22 percent in the last five years, and almost every other segment has suffered as a result. It's especially true for hybrids and EVs, which generally don't offer the size that today's shoppers crave."

    Last year sales: Hybridcars Dashboard Summary: March 2015 | PriusChat
    This year sales: March 2016 Dashboard | PriusChat


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
    #26 bwilson4web, Apr 22, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i don't believe size is the issue. sure, people want size, but are willing to give it up at 5 dollar gas.
     
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  8. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    RAV4 hybrid will start to help out and Chrysler Minivan is going to be interesting. One would think v wagon would pick up some of that SUV demand shift though.
     
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    We can compare the sales Q1_2015 and Q1_2016 matching models which omits new and discontinued models:
    Model Q1_2015 Q1_2016 diff(%)
    1 Volt 1181 2861 1680(142.3%)
    2 Model S 3300 4300 1000(30.3%)
    3 Fusion Energi 1263 1819 556(44.0%)
    4 RX 400 / 450 h 1162 1676 514(44.2%)
    5 Sonata 2465 2848 383(15.5%)
    6 500e 283 590 307(108.5%)
    7 Highlander Hybrid 563 867 304(54.0%)
    8 Cayenne S E-Hybrid 155 390 235(151.6%)
    9 Grand Cherokee Diesel 464 633 169(36.4%)
    10 Spark 237 391 154(65.0%)
    11 X3 Diesel 113 252 139(123.0%)
    12 NX Hybrid 388 496 108(27.8%)
    13 5-Series Diesel 158 203 45(28.5%)
    14 e-Golf 376 414 38(10.1%)
    15 Promaster Van Diesel 23 54 31(134.8%)
    16 Soul EV 132 160 28(21.2%)
    17 ActiveHybrid 5 535ih 3 2 -1(-33.3%)
    18 Jetta Hybrid 95 93 -2(-2.1%)
    19 7-Series ActiveHybrid 5 1 -4(-80.0%)
    20 GS 450h 17 13 -4(-23.5%)
    21 LS 600h 12 7 -5(-41.7%)
    22 Q5 Hybrid 17 8 -9(-52.9%)
    23 i 13 3 -10(-76.9%)
    24 QX60 Hybrid 324 314 -10(-3.1%)
    25 ML Class Diesel 16 5 -11(-68.8%)
    26 Malibu Hybrid 14 2 -12(-85.7%)
    27 ELR 184 171 -13(-7.1%)
    28 RLX Hybrid 32 19 -13(-40.6%)
    29 Q70 Hybrid 41 22 -19(-46.3%)
    30 Regal Hybrid 33 10 -23(-69.7%)
    31 Impala Hybrid 48 16 -32(-66.7%)
    32 E400H 43 1 -42(-97.7%)
    33 Focus EV 225 176 -49(-21.8%)
    34 Panamera S E-Hybrid 105 50 -55(-52.4%)
    35 MKZ 1185 1099 -86(-7.3%)
    36 Civic CNG 88 1 -87(-98.9%)
    37 C-Max Hybrid 1819 1729 -90(-4.9%)
    38 CR-Z 451 355 -96(-21.3%)
    39 i8 228 121 -107(-46.9%)
    40 forTwo EV 250 118 -132(-52.8%)
    41 C-Max Energi 1110 960 -150(-13.5%)
    42 Q50 Hybrid 687 510 -177(-25.8%)
    43 B-Class Electric 385 124 -261(-67.8%)
    44 3-Series Diesel 511 229 -282(-55.2%)
    45 Pathfinder Hybrid 442 152 -290(-65.6%)
    46 ES Hybrid 1822 1516 -306(-16.8%)
    47 Civic Hybrid 671 327 -344(-51.3%)
    48 GL-Class Diesel 612 260 -352(-57.5%)
    49 GLK Class Diesel 414 18 -396(-95.7%)
    50 Insight 432 21 -411(-95.1%)
    51 X5 Diesel 722 288 -434(-60.1%)
    52 Avalon Hybrid 1814 1359 -455(-25.1%)
    53 Cruze Diesel 573 94 -479(-83.6%)
    54 XV Crosstrek Hybrid 1099 590 -509(-46.3%)
    55 Lacrosse Hybrid 823 201 -622(-75.6%)
    56 Optima Hybrid 1649 905 -744(-45.1%)
    57 Cayenne Diesel 797 18 -779(-97.7%)
    58 E-Class Diesel 916 121 -795(-86.8%)
    59 CT200h 2421 1594 -827(-34.2%)
    60 Prius Plug In 874 17 -857(-98.1%)
    61 Fusion Hybrid 4316 3430 -886(-20.5%)
    62 Leaf 2887 2001 -886(-30.7%)
    63 i3 1592 514 -1078(-67.7%)
    64 Accord Hybrid 1753 122 -1631(-93.0%)
    65 Prius C 6178 4370 -1808(-29.3%)
    66 Camry Hybrid 4882 3002 -1880(-38.5%)
    67 Prius v 4429 2536 -1893(-42.7%)
    68 Prius Liftback 16801 14463 -2338(-13.9%)

    Ok, now we can see the trend for the 1st quarter between 2015 and 2016:
    • Plug-in and SUV styles - biggest gains
    • Prius Liftback- 'coughed' with model year change
      • Other Prius family hybrids got the flu
    I have no illusions about the Edmunds timing to coincide with "Earth Day." The raw data was available two weeks ago. I've not yet found Edmunds 2nd-4th Quarter reports. However, that doesn't mean we can't.

    The attached zip file has an Open Office spreadsheet with the data used to generate this table. Enjoy!

    Bob Wilson

    ps. I included both the absolute numbers and percentages. When I see percentages, I am reminded-'there are lies; damn lies, and; statistics'.
     

    Attached Files:

    #29 bwilson4web, Apr 23, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
  10. KennyGS

    KennyGS Senior Member

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    That list is obviously incomplete - missing vehicles.
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    One of the reasons I added the source spreadsheet was to give folks who want to modify the list a chance to make changes. I knew the TDI diesels would fall off the list.

    I am switching from Excel to OpenOffice and the vlookup() function does not always signal a missing row. Rather than spend a lot of time at 3 AM, I did a quick hack and tossed out non-matching entries. You're welcome to start with my spreadsheet which copied data from the original table posts (see links in earlier post.) But I also just woke up and will take another hack at it.

    I found some names would not match until I took out the "(" or corrected other 'invisible' characters. Also, I'm only showing models that show up in both 2015 and 2016. This omits the new and discontinued.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #31 bwilson4web, Apr 23, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2016
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  12. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    My theory is Volt and other PHEV bumped up 1Q due to sales in CA to lease companies, recognizing new green HOV stickers may be coming. If that theory is correct, we should know in about a month when we will know how many of those were sold in CA.
     
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  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The number of small SUVs choices has grown in the past year. The Jeep Renegade, Fiat 500x, and Honda HRV likely have has much space as the Matrix and HHR I had. They might do as well on gas though. Marketing has gotten people believing they need AWD, and many prefer sitting higher for the better view.

    The EV traded in data is incomplete, or at least going to be tricky to examine. The majority of BEVs simply aren't suitable for a one car household. So most are part of a two or more car one. Without knowing what the other cars are in the household, a call that EVs are being abandoned for non-plug ins can't be made. Car replacement for the household doesn't have to line up to the vehicle purpose; the minivan doesn't have to be replaced with a people hauler.

    For example, an EV lease could be up, and there are good deals to be had on a minivan or SUV for family trip duties. So the family gets a new people hauler for the EV, and the old hauler is used until more EV options arrive within the year, or they have a deposit on a Model 3.
     
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  14. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

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    Agreed, not shabby at all.

    DBCassidy


    Fastest growth in the market? You are missing the pickup truck and SUV sales.

    DBCassidy
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that's a lot of volts. i wonder how many were clearance 15's, and how many were pent up demand 16's?
     
  16. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    ...yeah we never get the breakdown of who is buying the cars, fleets or whatever, so I don't like to draw too much from the data.

    What I typically see though, the first half of the year, CA sales of Plug_ins are very high. By the end of the year it moderates. Not sure why.
     
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