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Prius I: jumping the HV battery?

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by primuspaul, May 17, 2017.

  1. primuspaul

    primuspaul Member

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    TonyDeru likes this.
  2. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    You might want bit higher output voltage.

    You have 36 modules each with 7. 2 nominal voltage. (273.6 vdc)

    You could purchase a Meanwell power supply.
    Input 120vac
    Output 300vdc (or higher)
    350 milliamps

    Or electrophoresis power supply with similar specs.
     
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Strictly controlling the charge current and duration is useful:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    -Chap
     
  4. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Nice pics.

    Another thought is that if you know someone else with a Gen 1 Prius you could use it to jump start your pack. Technically possible but it is VERY DANGEROUS. USE PERSONAL SAFETY EQUIPMENT.

    I just jumped a dead Prius's HV pack from my Prius yesterday. Was able to bring the dead pack up enough so the other Prius could start on its own.

    Put on high voltage safety protection
    Remove safety plugs.
    Measure to be sure no high voltage is present.
    Positive to positive.
    Negative to negative.
    Insert safety plugs as the final step.
     
    #4 ericbecky, May 18, 2017
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
  5. primuspaul

    primuspaul Member

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    Could you specify which power supply in particular?
     
  6. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    You'd probably be best contacting a parts house that sells Meanwell power supplies with your request. That way you can be sure to buy one that fits the specs.

    Either that or look through a Meanwell power supply catalog or pdf of their spec sheets online to find one that has the specs.

    Maybe lpc350100? There are quite a few variations of it (different input voltage, different output voltage)

    Once you find one that works, post back here and let us know what they say or what you find. I'm sure others would like to know.

    I have dedicated commercial chargers, some costing more than $1,000, so I'm not building my own.
     
  7. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    ChapmanF,

    I'm dying to hear the story behind the pictures...............plz, plz, plz!!!!!!

    TMR
     
  8. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    First you want to tackle your A/C system which likely needs a complete rebuild......with just a gauge and a can of freon.

    THEN.....you seem to want to kill yourself by connecting a high voltage, high current power supply to a battery bank in unknown condition.
    If several modules in a row (or just one maybe)are effectively shorted, there might be an EXPLOSION.
    Not kidding; you are getting into dangerous territory here.

    Even the high side of an A/C system can do you some serious damage if there is a rupture.

    I think you would be MUCH better off to get rid of that car.

    Assuming that you really HAVE the car you are talking about and this all isn't just troll bait.
     
    #8 Sam Spade, May 26, 2017
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Those were posted originally in a thread on a DIY plugin mod for a Gen 2 with two extra battery assemblies in the trunk, and insufficient control over charging. The first picture is on page 9 of the thread and taken in early March 2009. It was initially explained away as the fault of the pack that had failed, having been bought secondhand after possible flooding, which the owner assumed may have internally shorted two modules (perhaps not realizing the modules are sealed).

    The next pack to fail went in late June of the same year; that's the second picture, from page 17 of the thread. At that time, the owner got checked out in a hospital, having inhaled a snootful of KOH as aerosol or vapor.

    -Chap
     
    #9 ChapmanF, May 26, 2017
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  10. primuspaul

    primuspaul Member

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    I'm not trying to "tackle" anything A/C-wise. As stated in that thread, all I want to do is find out where the leak is. Apparently, the tools and supplies needed to test this are less than the price of a single A/C check at pepboys, so that is why I decided to do it.

    The car in question has an A/C problem, but presently does start. I just want to have a little kit set aside in storage in case I ever need to jump the vehicle. It's unlikely this will happen before something else breaks in the car, but still, if it can be had for a little $, why not have it just in case? It's no different than having a small A/C to DC 12V battery charger at home for such an occasion. Are you telling me people who have one of those are trolls, too? It's not my fault the car was designed so it can't be as easily jumped as a car that has only a 12V system.
     
  11. dabard051

    dabard051 Tinkerer-in-Charge

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    The high voltage battery is a powerful beast, best treated with care. If the HV battery IS sufficiently discharged as to not be able to start the car, AND all the cells are in reasonable condition, I would suggest that the equivalent of a 'trickle charge' is the preferred strategy (safety being of the highest priority). I have had good luck with this recharger from HybridAutomotiveLLC.com (cell balancer/recharger for 1999-2003 Prius) (about $500) in the one or two circumstances that I have had to provide juice to Big Mama under the back seat. Access to the Big Mama (+) and ( - ) terminals requires removing the battery fro the car, UNLESS you bring out the charge points in advance.
     
  12. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    All I can say is "WOW". With most of my life spent in electricity/electronics, a small amount of reading was all it took to realize it probably wasn't going to end well. Extra battery packs in parallel sounds easy and simple, but real life is a different beast. No way was there going to be long term success with no real monitoring/controls/safety devices on the additional packs and not to mention the total lack of cooling airflow. My oh my. Made for a long read, but interesting. I applaud the effort, but sometimes we need to open our eyes and listen to/take heed of advice provided by those that know better. That thread falls under the category of "advice can be provided, but no one can force you to take it", as there were members trying to push her in that direction, but were ignored because "everything is working great". At least nobody got killed.

    Sometimes it's just easier and cheaper to just fill the tank of the car you own and drive it. Don't worry so much about trying to make improvements to get a few more MPG. Spend thousands of $$ to get 70 mpg instead of 50? How much fuel could that $$ buy? How much additional hassle to endure? Warranty void? Reliability down the toilet? One tow around here is about $230, that's a hundred gallons+ of fuel.

    To those that work on conversions.....more power to you. I love tinkering with stuff also, just be safe and keep an open mind to suggestions and advice.

    And one more thing that bothered me in that thread. The case floor IS a structural component of the battery. Although the compression of the pack is obtained by the end plates and rods (which are the correctly engineered length to obtain correct compression, unlike all-thread rods), the modules being bolted to the floor maintain the "straightness" of the pack. ANYTHING that tries to expand, but is limited in lateral movement will try to move in any direction possible to relieve the stress. That includes up, down or sideways. The modules being attached to the floor prevent this from happening. Think of it like an empty coke can sitting on a table with a 10 pound weight balanced on top of it. The can will hold it just fine. Then poke a dent in the side of the can and see what happens. Once the pack starts to bow, it's game over, as the metal rods won't even slow it down, like the poked coke can.
     
    #12 TMR-JWAP, May 26, 2017
    Last edited: May 26, 2017
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Gen 1 has a convenient little Plug To Nowhere for that purpose, as I recall....

    -Chap
     
  14. primuspaul

    primuspaul Member

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    Do you know if they ground that battery to the chassis or if they run the ground wire separately? If it's grounded to chassis, it should be possible to get to the + port by taking out the fuse cover in the trunk.
     
  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Both sides of the HV battery are isolated from the chassis, and the battery ECU tests that isolation and will log code P3009 if it is breached for any reason. If you want external access to the + and - of the battery, that's what the Plug To Nowhere on the end of the case is for.

    There are a few things a person should probably make sure to know before contemplating work on the HV battery; that was one of them. If at least the New Car Features manual hasn't made it onto your reading list yet, I commend it to your attention. :)

    -Chap
     
  16. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I thought maybe Samsung had started making hybrid car batteries. :ROFLMAO:
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I think there was even a post somewhere on that thread, suggesting the owner try Li-ion instead because the charge control wouldn't be as tricky. :eek:

    -Chap
     
  18. primuspaul

    primuspaul Member

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    http://mastertechmag.com/pdf/2010/10oct/201010-outofjuice.pdf

    Quite a useful article.
     
  19. primuspaul

    primuspaul Member

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    I found something here that might work:

    http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/622/SFE_DPG-473584.pdf

    About $140.

    AC85 - 264 input, 360 DC output.

    Would that work if hooked up to the HV terminals?
     
  20. primuspaul

    primuspaul Member

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    Pharmacia Fine Chemicals Electrophoresis Constant Power Supply ECPS 3000/150 | eBay

    Would that work? Specs per a website I found:

    Outputs: 50-3000V; 0.1-150 mA or 1-150W. Continuously adjustable with dual outputs.