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Traction Control On When Switching from Reverse to Drive?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by kevelev, Jan 29, 2018.

  1. kevelev

    kevelev Junior Member

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    2011 Toyota Prius II (non plug in). Car has about 90,000 miles on it. I noticed the last few weeks that occasionally when I switch between reverse and drive, the traction control light comes on with a beep, and travel is halted for a brief period, even when I let off the brake. Then it goes away. This is even on dry, level pavement (although it is winter in NY). Any idea what could be the cause? The only thing I can think of is that maybe I switch between R and D too quickly. I've heard of people having trouble with T/C on the Prius but is this one of those issues? Thanks!
     
  2. BZzap!

    BZzap! Senior Member

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    First thing to come to my mind is a faulty wheel speed (Hall) sensor. Perhaps it could also be corrosion in the wire harness connectors. To start off, I would check all of those connectors and make sure that the wheel reluctors are not covered in rust and dirt. Clean everything up and go from there.
     
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Nitpicky point, maybe, but Hall effect sensors are only one, rather specialized, kind of magnetic field sensor, that can be used for certain magical things like making current clamps than can measure DC. I think there are some in a Prius (in the accelerator pedal and the shift selector, at least), but I don't think the wheel speed sensors (or the crank, cam, or MG1/2 resolver sensors) actually use the Hall effect.

    -Chap
     
  4. BZzap!

    BZzap! Senior Member

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  5. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    Do you have any ABS Codes?
     
  6. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Could be a bad steering angle sensor. You will need to have Toyota check for codes that may have been picked up by the computer.
     
  7. Bill the Engineer

    Bill the Engineer Senior Member

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    Are you sure that you have come to a full stop before shifting from reverse to drive?
     
  8. kevelev

    kevelev Junior Member

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    Doing some more digging, it seems like hill start assist might be kicking in. I do hear a beep, and when I let off the brake, it takes about 1 second for the idling engine to start rolling the car on its own, rather than the instant I let off the brake. What do you guys make of this?
     
  9. Bill the Engineer

    Bill the Engineer Senior Member

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    Pressing on the brake pedal too hard while at a stop can trigger this. Sounds like the answer. Try not mashing so hard on the brake after the car has come to a stop.
     
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  10. kevelev

    kevelev Junior Member

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    Yeah I started trying to lightly press the brake and the issue seems to be gone. The reason I was pressing hard was because at first I thought I switched between R and D too fast, so to make sure that I came to a complete stop I gave it a firm, but slow pedal press. But that's what actually caused the problem to begin with. Thanks!
     
  11. BZzap!

    BZzap! Senior Member

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    Here’s what you do to prevent your light from coming on.
     
  12. tvpierce

    tvpierce Senior Member

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    I haven't dealt with the ABS/wheel speed sensors on either of my Prii, but unless they're different than other cars, they are indeed Hall Effect Sensors.
    HES's are also commonly used as Crank Position Sensors for timing purposes in internal combustion engines.
     
  13. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    This video may be a good place to look.

    A visual inspection is always a good place to start.

     
  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The Toyota manuals are pretty explicit about identifying which sensing technology is used for each application in the car. For example, the 2004 (Gen 2) New Car Features manual covers the use of Hall sensors in the shift position sensor (page CH-13), the shift control actuator (CH-16), and the accelerator position sensor (TH-38). The MG1/2 resolver sensors use a simpler technology (ordinary coils, one fed by an AC signal, the other two picking it up off the oval rotor; page TH-29). The cam and crank sensors are plain pick-up coil type (page EG-19). The steering torque sensor with its coils is described on CH-78.

    The wheel speed sensors don't seem to be detailed in the New Car Features manual (maybe they weren't a new enough feature?) ... but for Gen 1 anyway, they can be seen in a clear diagram on page DI-366 of the 2001 repair manual. Plain pickup coils again, showing the sinusoidal waveform you'd expect, and a simple resistance test between the two coil terminals.

    It's clear why they would use Hall sensors for the accelerator pedal and shift selector; after all, those sensors have to accurately read the position of a magnet, even when the position isn't changing, and for that you need the Hall effect. The other applications like wheel speed and crank position all have a toothed disc happily spinning away in a magnetic field, and nothing would stop you using Hall sensors for that if you just had them lying around, but you certainly don't have to, as a plain coil and permanent magnet can do that job.

    -Chap
     
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  15. tvpierce

    tvpierce Senior Member

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    Doggone it Chap, I'm not even done with my first cup of coffee this morning and you've made me go and learn something! :)

    My knowledge of Hall Effect Sensors is limited exclusively to automotive/motorcycle applications -- used to sense position of the engine for timing and fueling purposes, and to sense the position and speed of wheels for ABS.

    Your post made me Google "Hall Effect" which led me to Wikipedia and a fascinating read on Hall Effect Theory.

    It seems the use of Hall Effect in the automotive world is about the simplest use of the theory -- a bianary, "yes or no" to determine the position and/or speed of a rotating object. I had no idea about the more sophisticated applications.

    I'm going to take the rest of the day off. This thinking business is hard work!!:X3:
     
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  16. rrg

    rrg Active Member

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    My 2011 (prius II) 128K had the traction control come on during driving on steady roads no bumps, a few times a week, every now and then. I had the original factory 2011 battery back then.

    After I changed the 12v battery the issue seemed to go away but it did happen one or two times in a year now.

    I wounder if my old 12v battery would go down in voltage and trigger my traction control for some unknown reason.

    I never continued to troubleshoot this since it's almost all gone with the new battery.

    I just assumed since it was electrical, the new battery helped put all the sensors and electronic devices back to where they should run at.

    If you still have that old OEM 12v battery a new one could help.
    my2cents.
     
    #16 rrg, Feb 3, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I think I needed to learn something too. Gen 1 and Gen 2 manuals show speed sensor waveforms that are sinusoidal and get closer together and taller with increasing wheel speed, as you'd expect for simple passive magnetic sensors.

    In the Gen 3 manual, the waveform illustrations have changed, to square pulses that get closer with speed but have constant height, because starting in Gen 3 they really are using some kind of active sensor like Hall effect. And this thread's in the Gen 3 forum, so that was right all along, and it was my bad for taking the thread on a detour. Live and learn. :)