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Excessive/Ghost Mileage after mechanic?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Johnsmith009, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah the evap line to intake manifold plugs in just below throttle body.
     
  2. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    Its the charcoal canister as I mentioned. Any tips on finding a replacement?
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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  4. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    Thats.... Odd.
    Other parts on other sites (out of stock) list around even $900.

    I'll verify the part numbers when I look at the invoice tomorrow, but in advance $40 sounds way too low.

    On the off chance it *does* work, thank you for saving me 1.5k.
     
  5. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    Seems like that's just the filter. I need the whole assembly, part #77740-47060.

    Also that site doesn't allow shipping to canada (or at least my address).
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah I just use McGeorge for reference. It would be really sweet if they could/would ship to Canada. The only option is some sort of just-across-the-border mail box; there are services like that. Anyway, wow, that is not cheap, are you sure it's needed?

    Vapor Separator - Toyota (77740-47060) | Toyota Parts

    And close to a grand CDN on Amazon.ca:



    Note, that was first hit, which is already about $350 cheaper than the dealership.

    Maybe search EBay for that part number too. Here's one, new, and ship to Canada:

    Genuine Toyota Vapor Separator 77740-47060 | eBay

    Attached is info from repair manual on how to replace:
     

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    #86 Mendel Leisk, Apr 11, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  7. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    Genuine Toyota Vapor Separator 77740-47060 | eBay
    $650 CAD. Yknow, I'm not certain its needed.

    And even if it is, it's just EVAP system. Unless I'm mistaken, you can go a decent time without repairing minor issues in the EVAP system if you're okay with slight mileage drop. Please correct me if I'm wrong and I'll seek to fix it within the month.

    I thought the mechanics knew what they were doing because they're toyota and they have several hybrid techs, but
    A) They couldn't diagnose my main problem,
    B) This is just the recommended fix. They put this part # on the "corrections" category, but nowhere does it say its broken/the cause.
    The exact words are, "Suspect internal problem". I don't see mention of certainty anywhere, just that this is the action they'd take next. Advisor seemed pretty sure it was the problem... But lack of documented proof is concerning.

    Any suggestions for a second opinion? Or maybe I could do it myself? I have some tools now, I could rent a smoke machine if its similar difficulty of taking the intake manifold off.


    Also, back to the main problem,
    1. I suspect that perhaps despite cleaning the EGR Cooler, maybe its stuck open/closed. I didn't have much time to examine it. How would you even tell?
    2. Maybe MAS sensor is failing? I don't really know what to look for, but similar symptoms (still missing a few though)
    3. Recently thought maybe the MAP sensor is failing. When I took the IM apart, not only did it look poor, but I also may have spilled 1 or 2 or 50cc's of coolant onto it.
    Side question; Is the intake PSI supposed to be lower than barometric PSI? Barometric tends to sit around 14PSI, but intake is ALWAYS lower than barometric, unless the engine is not on. Even before I cleaned anything.
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    One of the attached has some info on EGR testing, though I glaze over looking at it, and suspect you need Techstream. If you're not getting a warning light, should be functional, albeit clogging?

    There's some charcoal canister testing procedure, pretty straightforward, I think you need something like MightyVac to apply pressure/vacuum, in my previous attachment.
     
  9. CR94

    CR94 Senior Member

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    Yes. It must be lower on any running engine that is not turbocharged or supercharged.
     
  10. Lightning Racer

    Lightning Racer Active Member

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    Sounds like the evap system vacuum purge valve/vacuum switching valve. It's known to sometimes stick open causing similar symptoms because it lets in unmetered air into the intake.

    unexplained engine racing | PriusChat

    Yup, probably the purge valve. This thread describes some testing.

    Engine behaving strangely and popping hoses off intake manifold | Page 2 | PriusChat


    Incompetent.

    Do you see physical damage to the charcoal canister? It's not really located in a damage prone area. I think you can damage it by overfilling the gas tank, but I think that would be giving you different codes than what you got.
     
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  11. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    Now this seems promising!
    I don't have a hoist of any sort, nor do I have the current know-how on how it should look/how to test the charcoal caniser.

    I've never personally overfilled the gas tank (Fill until 1 click is heard, then try again and stop after second click), but I wasn't the sole owner of the car.
    It WAS fine until I sent it in to them/rushed on the highway though.

    Any advice on checking the purge valve specifically for gen 3s? I can't seem to find much, I've found written documentation and abstract diagrams for gen 2.
     
  12. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    I just realized why that looks familiar:
    Is the purge valve visible when taking off the intake manifold? If so I think I know where it is
     
  13. Lightning Racer

    Lightning Racer Active Member

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    If I remember correctly, you only need to take off the air box.
     
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  14. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    This is it, right? It connects to the intake manifold. Similar to someone else's problem, it was popped off.

    If so I have some unfortunate news, when cleaning the manifold I thought it'd be a f a n t a s t i c idea to spray brake cleaner into it, before realizing it was detachable and has a plug.

    So while it may be the cause of the current evap problem, it's possible it was working before.

    Also attached is the thing I spilt a lot of coolant on. Connects to throttle body. 1555095053143.jpeg 1555095258067.jpeg
    First image inscriptions:
    TOYOTA 120L
    90910-12279
    136200-7110
    DENSO 091006-1
    12V JAPAN

    Second image inscriptions:
    TOYOTA
    89421-52010
    7420
    10L02
     
    #94 Johnsmith009, Apr 12, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  15. Lightning Racer

    Lightning Racer Active Member

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    Yes, the first picture is of the evap purge/vacuum switching valve. Try testing it with a 12V battery to see if it sticks open.

    The other sensor is the manifold absolute pressure sensor. It's probably OK - pretty tolerant of being covered in oil anyway.
     
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  16. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    Just as I was about to drive off, engine idled super rough, threw p106a pending code and said check engine. Great.
    Double checked and both manifold sensors are plugged in.

    Edit: Carefully re assembling it let me drive it home. Oddly no error codes, pending or logged.
     
    #96 Johnsmith009, Apr 12, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  17. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    It's actually the pcv hose that keeps popping off... Wth?
     
  18. The Critic

    The Critic Resident Critic

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    You have a stuck VSV/purge valve which is causing the hose to be blown off. There is a TSB describing this issue. You will need to replace the valve and update the engine calibration to the latest version.
     
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  19. Johnsmith009

    Johnsmith009 Member

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    Even if the hose popping off isn't connected to the vsv?
     
  20. The Critic

    The Critic Resident Critic

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    That is the only explanation that I can think of.
     
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