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2011 Engine rumble when accelerating from complete stop. Just replaced spark plugs/ignition coils

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by excellentterrestrial, Jun 22, 2020.

  1. excellentterrestrial

    excellentterrestrial Junior Member

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    This car is sending me through it! Some history, 'cause I want to be thorough:

    Decided to take a long route back from a road trip to California earlier this year. After miles and miles of rough roads through Texas oil fields it started presenting an issue where it would vibrate on start/at idle when the gas engine kicked on. It was very intermittent, but eventually threw a check engine light. I put some seafoam in the gas tank and the rumbling went away, as did the check engine light.

    A few weeks later it returned with a vengeance. I tried the conditioner again and it didn't seem to help. We were in the middle of quarantine at that point so not only were there no shops open, I couldn't have friends or family come help me out with diagnosing/repairing the issue. Fortunately it meant that I didn't have to drive much, but you can't avoid it completely. So I certainly made things worse by driving the car while it was having this problem. After a while it would occasionally make a smelly white smoke on startup, and in those instances the Check Hybrid Engine warning would come up. It would also use up coolant. Shortly after this I was able to borrow an old car from my parents and parked the Prius in my garage.

    Last weekend I was finally able to get with my folks to work on it. I haven't driven it for a few months at this point. I pulled the codes with a scanner I bought from walmart and got P0300, P0301, P0302. We replaced all the spark plugs and the ignition coils on 1 and 2. We also cleaned out the intake manifold and EGR pipe, and drained/refilled the coolant.

    Check engine light is no longer on. I was able to clear the stored DTC codes but they still show up as "Permanent" codes when I connect to the code reader. I'm not really familiar with using DTCs so I don't know if that means the misfire is still present.

    It makes the vibration/rattling noise for maybe 2 seconds on its "morning start" now. The car is no longer running rough at idle, BUT will shudder when accelerating from a complete stop (like at stoplights.)

    I'm wondering how to proceed from here. I'm thinking I might try to put more conditioner in the engine and see if that helps. My next avenue of investigation was going to be the head gasket, but should I replace the other two ignition coils first? Anything I might not have thought of?

    Extra Credit:
    Unrelated to the above, but I've also got ABS, Traction, and Brake lights on, and getting that brake actuator noise every few seconds. Brakes still work but are "softer"/less responsive. Lights will go off intermittently and brakes firm back up. I'm aware this was a known issue and recall in the 2010, but not the 2011. However I have seen some stuff about a Warranty Enhancement for this issue that covers the 2011 for certain error codes. I did the paper clip thing to get the error codes and it seems like one of the codes, 69/C1391, should be covered under this warranty enhancement. I have tried calling my local dealership today but haven't been able to get in touch with anyone -- just wondering if anyone here has had any success getting this repair covered by this warranty enhancement (ZJB).

    Sorry for the wall of text! I have been lurking on these forums since before I bought the car and this community has been super helpful to me the whole time I've owned it!
     
  2. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Well no miles indicated, perhaps too thorough for us.
     
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  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah definitely post how many miles on it. Also, is the engine coolant level in reservoir stable?

    On the intake manifold, did you clean out the small (EGR) passages (roughly 1/4" diameter) at each port.

    I'm guess you haven't cleaned the EGR valve and cooler.

    I would just swap coils one and two with three and four, see what it does. I suspect nothing, but who knows.

    My guess is a failed head gasket, between cylinders one and two, due to protracted driving with clogged EGR. The EGR gas final hurdle are those small passages on the intake manifold, and they clogged progressively worse, going from cylinder 4 to 1. Accordingly cylinder 1 tends to be running hottest.

    Some boilerplate info and attachments:

    The simplest way to see where you're at, is to check the degree of carbon build up in the EGR pipe, a stainless steel connecting pipe between the EGR valve and intake manifold. Watch @NutzAboutBolts video #16 here:

    Nutz About Bolts Prius Maintenance Videos | PriusChat

    Two or three other videos linked there too, for the full cleaning of the intake manifold, full EGR clean, and Oil Catch Can install.

    Good thread:

    EGR & Intake Manifold Clean Results | PriusChat

    Another:

    Oil Catch Can, Eliminate that knock! | PriusChat

    Some tools worth having:

    E8 Torx socket (mandatory)
    E6 Torx socket (optional, but good to have, to remove the throttle body studs from intake manifold)
    3/8" ratchet wrench, regular and long handle, flex head, you can never have enough (or 1/2 plus reducer)
    1/4" ratchet wrench, or 3/8" to 1/4" reducer
    Ratchet extensions: you can never have enough
    Long needle nose piers, straight and bent tip
    Ratcheting 12mm box wrench (optional, but makes disconnection of the EGR cooler from exhaust easier)
    Torque wrench (3/8" and 1/4" both good to have)
    Floor jack and safety stands (or ramps): basically some method to raise front, if you need to take underpanel off, which you may need to, both for access and to recover dropped items.

    Comment regarding clamping of coolant hose, mentioned and or shown in videos:

    1. When removing the intake manifold for cleaning, you do need to lift the throttle body off the intake manifold. Still, the coolant hoses connected to the throttle body have ample slack, enough that you can leave them connected, and just tie the throttle body to something adjacent, say the inverter wiring harness.

    2. When removing the EGR cooler, removing coolant hoses is necessary, but if you drain 2 liters/quarts from the radiator drain spigot prior (into a clean container), the coolant level in the system will be dropped below the EGR componennts, and you won't spill anything. Just be sure to not tip the cooler when lifting it off (and catch the rear gasket): there are a few tablespoons of coolant trapped at the lower back corner.

    Pour that into your previous drained coolant, and when done pour it back into the reservoir. If you've got the coolant bleed bolt (2010, 2011 model years), leave it open while pouring the coolant back in, till coolant starts coming out. For later model years, leave the topmost coolant hose on EGR disconnected till coolant starts coming out. Also, might help to burp the main radiator hose as you pour the coolant back in.
     
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  4. excellentterrestrial

    excellentterrestrial Junior Member

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    187k miles, sorry I forgot to add that to my OP!

    Risked a grocery store run in it yesterday and the rattle came back once while I had the car parked/running. So she's back in the garage. No coolant loss as far as I can tell but I've only driven it for a few short trips since draining/refilling the coolant.

    We did not clean the EGR valve/cooler. I had planned to, basically my intention was to go through all of the NutzaboutBoltz maintenance process, but once we got the spark plugs out they were in such rough shape that I guess I was just hoping that would solve my problems. I actually started to take off the valve cover but the screws were in there tight and I was afraid of stripping them, so I just focused on what I knew I'd be able to accomplish in the day.

    We cleaned the intake manifold very thoroughly but I'm not sure about the EGR passages on the manifold. I saw someone mention it in the comments on the NaB video but I'll admit I couldn't quite figure out what they were referring to. I just scrubbed the thing as best as I could following the video, left it in the sun to dry for a while, wiped it out and put it back on.

    The EGR pipe was pretty packed with buildup. I knew I should have cleaned the cooler/valve too but I didn't realize until doing more research after the repair attempt that it was probably the most likely point where this all started. Maybe if I'd realized that when I first started having trouble it wouldn't have gotten this bad, but hindsight is 20/20 lol.

    Thank you @Mendel Leisk for the tips on doing the cleaning! I'm gonna try that again and make sure to get the EGR cooler as well. See if that makes any difference at all. I'll give a shot at switching those ignition coils too for shiggles.

    If the head gasket has failed, which I'm pretty sure it has, I think my next step will be trying to get a low-miles engine replacement. I see there are some resources on the forum about that. I haven't been able to find much about doing just the head gasket, I saw one video series on YouTube that had loud music and no voiceover and just watching it stressed me the hell out. I'm fairly comfortable DIYing stuff and I'm lucky that my mom is a pretty skilled mechanic, but we're not sure about doing that job. At this point it seems like putting in a low-mile engine might be a better investment than just doing the head gasket, even if we have to pay someone to install it.

    Sorry for my rambling, I'm just kinda thinking through this situation and hoping I'm on the right track with it. I like this car a lot, I want to keep it for a while!
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I would leave the black cap on the EGR valve , focus on getting the valve/cooler combo off the car first.

    FWIW, I was able to clean the valve without removing that cap. It's a little fiddly, involved very careful pry up of the valve lip with a knife tip, lots of brake cleaner and brushes, but I didn't want to risk damaging the screws or having reassembly problems.

    @NutzAboutBolts doesnt take off the cap either, gets it clean.
     
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  6. Jamendan

    Jamendan New Member

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    I am having same problem on my 2010 Prius w 155k miles. Took to dealer. Replaced intake manifold and egr. Still happens only occasionally on startup. Now they say needs new head gasket for $3,300. Did you resolve your issue?
     
  7. excellentterrestrial

    excellentterrestrial Junior Member

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    Back with some updates!

    Tried swapping ignition coils as suggested. Test drove with no issues. However got a new code when we did this, P0010. Tried test driving again later and the shake was back.

    Decided to focus on cleaning the manifold/egr. Got that done. MAN that EGR cooler is hard to take off!! Soaked the cooler in Purple Power then blasted it clean at the car wash, can now see through it end to end.

    After reassembling Engine Misfire codes are no longer present. Some shake on initial startup, none whatsoever during test drive. Idled for a while in garage with no issues.

    Still showing code P0010, after test drive also shows code P0012.

    Death rattle was back this morning on cold start. Seems a little different, more of a clatter/rattle than the previous rumble/shudder. Don't know if it matters.

    After doing some research, I changed the oil/filter to see if it would allow me to clear the new codes. No luck. I also tried replacing the VVT solenoid. No luck.

    So now I've got new ignition coils and spark plugs, a sparkly clean intake manifold and EGR cooler, fresh oil and a new filter, and a brand new VVT solenoid. I still have codes P0010 and P0012, a loud clattering rattle on startup, though it doesn't seem to be doing it at idle or when i accelerate from stop anymore. No smoke or coolant loss that I'm aware of, though my test drives have been very short.

    I was hoping that I'd get lucky and the culprit wouldn't be the head gasket. Could something indicated by these trouble codes cause these symptoms to reappear? I'm going to be doing more research tonight but if anyone could point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it!
     
  8. excellentterrestrial

    excellentterrestrial Junior Member

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    Aaah! Possible culprit for the P0010/P0012 codes!

    [​IMG]

    This wire was NOT broken before, but it's snapped off from my toolin' around in there. Maybe it was already loose and causing the code. Since it first appeared after swapping those ignition coils it's possible we knocked that connector around too much while changing coil 1. I guess my next step is to get a new plug and see if that'll do me.

    Fff all this tinkering I'm doing on this thing I might just have to figure out doing this head gasket myself lol
     
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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Interesting videos here:

    New head gasket replacement video from Gasket Masters | PriusChat

    These guys cut corners, make it look easier than it'll be for sure, but still worth watching. Note they mention a "12 mm triple square" socket for the head bolts: that I think is a case of "close but no cigar". The correct socket is a "10 mm double hex", spec'd in the Repair Manual. There's mention of this in the link.

    If you do get into it I can post a few Repair Manual excerpts.
     
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  10. NewHybridOwner

    NewHybridOwner Active Member

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    They replaced the intake manifold? -- They couldn't just clean out those little passages?
     
  11. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    How are they supposed to take you to the cleaners if they just clean it?

    Disclaimer- this reply may not apply in all situations.
     
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  12. NewHybridOwner

    NewHybridOwner Active Member

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    That is what I had in mind. And if he did not demand that they return the old one, they could clean out those passages when they have time on their hands and sell it to another victim.
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I would suspect they just fire the old parts into a dumster, that's their mindset.
     
  14. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    They obviously could- but that isn't the procedure in their manual from Toyota, and there is no labor book time listed for cleaning manifold parts, just replacing them. Unlike neighborhood & backyard mechanics, they can't deviate from what The Big Toyota Manual says.
     
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  15. excellentterrestrial

    excellentterrestrial Junior Member

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    Aight, spliced some fresh wires onto that plug we broke and that took care of the P0010/P0012 codes. Really should have checked the voltages on that BEFORE i bought a new solenoid :unsure:

    I've got NO check engine light and NO codes as of tonight, but still getting some engine shake. Not nearly as bad as before, and it kinda seems like it happened less and less over the course of my test drive. Maybe there's still degreaser in the intake from cleaning it. Maybe there's a tool lost in there somewhere. Idk but my journey's not over yet apparently.

    @Mendel Leisk thanks for the link to the video! The only one I'd found that came close was the one from Ebn C on youtube. It seems pretty thorough but there's no voiceover or explanation, just a recording of the process with loud music played over it. I had managed to hunt up some pages from the repair manual to compare to what he was doing, but if you have some excerpts you could send me I'd appreciate it! If we decide to tackle this job I will probably just pay for access to the toyota manual and print out the pages I need, but it'd be good to study up in the meanwhile.
     
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  16. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    It strikes me that you had two reasons for poor combustion- 1) plugged EGR leading to too much air charge, a mix lean-out 2) coolant getting past the head gasket and gathering in the combustion chamber, thus reducing volume and raising compression until it is cleared.

    You've eliminated the EGR problem, which should mean smoother running most of the time. I predict that you will retain rough first-start-of-day however as that is due to the coolant accumulating overnight.

    Still needs a gasket (or engine with good gasket).
     
  17. Brian farrell

    Brian farrell New Member

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    Sorry I started another thread this is my issue too. My mechanic is pretty sure I have no misfire and its transmission related. I will try clean egr pipe or at least see if it has build up before I get it to toyota next week. I have no codes. Something I read is bad injectors will cause this too.
     
  18. excellentterrestrial

    excellentterrestrial Junior Member

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    Just wanted to post an update! It took us 2 weekends and a lot of cussin' but we got that head gasket replaced at last! Had to chase down a couple more codes for wiring that got damaged during the repair (nothin' a lil' soldering couldnt take care of thankfully) and the thermostat housing leaked a ton of coolant at first (probably just the gasket failing to seal but we put a whole new part on there because good lord that piece is hard to take off without taking the intake manifold back out) but WE DID IT!!

    No rumble, no codes! Saved a ton of cash and heartache! And to think I was seriously considering pouring thermagasket down the poor thing's gullet lol

    Thanks so much for y'all's advice and support, especially @Mendel Leisk for coming through with all those resources and repair manual info. Also just wanted to update for @Jamendan and @Brian farrell that the head gasket ended up being my issue. It's a beast of a repair, but if you've got the tools and a helping hand or three you'll probably get out of there for <$500 if you want to DIY it. Bonus that you'll learn a LOT about the mechanical parts of your car. I feel pretty confident changing oil and fluids and small parts like thermostat, water pump, etc now when I had no idea how to do any of that before. And if you completely beef it, you'll probs spend less swapping out the engine at a neighborhood mechanic than you would swapping the gasket at a dealership, and that alone made it worth it for me.

    Best of luck to y'all in getting your issues resolved, and thanks again so much to everyone who's helped me out :X3:
     
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  19. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Very satisfying isn't it? :) I'm glad it's all running good. GOOD JOB! :)

    I hope you get another few hundred thousand miles out of it!
    Keeping that cooler cleared should do it! :)
     
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  20. Jamendan

    Jamendan New Member

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    Wish I had your skills! I ended up selling it and bought a 2014 PriusV.
     
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