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Whats wrong with this procedure? The HV battery is connected in series , the ECU reads in banks of 2

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Phillip Griffith, Nov 19, 2020.

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  1. Albert Barbuto

    Albert Barbuto Member

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    Pdf file has the info you seek.
     

    Attached Files:

    #41 Albert Barbuto, Dec 4, 2020
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  2. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    Exactly what I was looking for, found it ,lost its location and thanks now I remembered it was there. It may not matter but even that doesn't tell me what B2 or B3 stand for.??
     
    #42 Phillip Griffith, Dec 4, 2020
  3. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    Lets talk about the battery ECU for a moment , my understanding that it could be a Denso or Toyota used in the battery assembly. G9280-47110 2345P247110078030259 on the case, Toyota 89890-47092, 469000-0210 Denso ECU installed , VIN: JTDKB20U387.....more if needed. Question could this be a replacement? Anyway to tell?
     
    #43 Phillip Griffith, Dec 4, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
  4. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

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    Doubtful it was replaced if the previous owner only swapped some modules.

    Part # 89890-47092 is the latest being offered.

    You may want to inspect the HV Battery ECU and connector and potential corrosion, take a look at the images in the post below. Notice the corrosion inside the ECU connection point, and missing/corroded pin that is now stuck inside the harness connector

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    #44 SFO, Dec 4, 2020
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  5. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    UPDATE: My discharger/charger has been stuck in Atlanta USPS for 3 days. Reinstalled the HV battery to read codes using a INNOVA 31703 scan tool ,here are the codes I got on the entire system: some are older, some newer; PLEASE HOLD ADVICE FOR NOW! Until I finish setting this up so I will understand what may be advised me to do. What I have noticed (which may be correct) there is no codes concerning the battery. And yup the sensors I changed have the most codes. Oil overfill probably got the CAT by the previous owner: I did not delete any codes for now as a starting point. THIS IS GOING TO BE FUN. I want to get the battery up to par.
    P1E03
    camshaft (cam) timing [REPLACED SENSOR]
    P0171
    Mass airflow/vacuum leak/O2 sensor bad?
    C3200
    EVAP system hose leaking, Air fuel ratio (A/F) Sensor 1 Bank 1 circuit poor electrical connection, Faulty oil control valve (OCV),Ignition misfiring [REPLACED A/F SENSOR WITH GENERIC]
    PO38
    Wiring short to positive, HO2S, ECM [REPLACED ECM USED /REINSTALLED ORIGINAL]
    PO101
    mass air flow sensor (MAF) is out of expected range.[REPLACED]
    PO103
    Powertrain Control Module detects a high voltage output from the MAF Sensor.
    P1B01
    ECM, has logged a problem
    PO121
    Engine Control Module (ECM) has seen the TPS sensor circuit A learned output voltage go above or below the sensor's expected range when compared to TPS sensor circuit B.
    P2201
    NOx sensor wires that are broken or shorted, Faulty NOx sensor. Engine Control Module that needs to be reprogrammed or replaced
    P0125
    Engine Oil Temperature Sensor Malfunction
    P2801
    Transmission Range Sensor "B" Circuit Range/Performance
    PO220
    camshaft (cam) timing
    P2202
    Crankshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Low Input.
    PO325
    Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor Circuit Malfunction.
    PO341
    Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor Circuit Malfunction
    POO12
    Camshaft Position A Timing Over-Retarded Bank 1
    PO131
    Cold Start Injector 1 Malfunction
    P3191
    oil temp sensor / verify VCT is good
    These codes appeared when I tried to start the ICE with 6 blue bars showing on dash display: Ran for 12 seconds /shut off /immediately tried to restart 4 second run
    P3700
    Cam shaft sensor
    PO201
    Heater circuit malfunction
    PO113
    Engine Oil Temperature Sensor Malfunction
    P2501
    (Injector Circuit Malfunctions Only)
    PO420
    Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold
    CO605
    O2 Sensor Heater Circuit Malfunction.
    PO501A
    Fuel Composition Sensor Circuit Malfunction.
    PO311
    Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor
    P1450
    Fuel Temperature Sensor B Circuit
    P2503
    Shift Solenoid E Performance or Stuck Off
     
    #45 Phillip Griffith, Dec 6, 2020
  6. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Step one....my gut reaction is that is not a Prius friendly scanner.....without a doubt....you are going to be wasting a lot of time chasing ghosts. I can tell you right now, a P3191 is 'engine failed to start' and has nothing to do with 'oil temp sensor/verify vct is good', which is non existent on a Gen2. There's a lot of codes/descriptions that make no sense for a gen2 in that list.

    Keep in mind an expensive code reader/professional code reader does not always mean a hybrid compatible code scanner.

    Do you have a digital copy of the repair manual for the car?
     
    #46 TMR-JWAP, Dec 6, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
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  7. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    My son-in-law doesn't like it either, lol . might be why he loaned it to me with no time limit for return. The P3191 was something a web site had (i take it with a grain of salt) as well as the rest of them - Maybe I should edit those notes out. No I dont have a digital copy of manual , direct me to it.
     
    #47 Phillip Griffith, Dec 6, 2020
  8. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    There have been a few members that have posted a link to an online resource that has the full digital version of the repair manual. Wish I had saved the link. I'll search a bit to see if I can find it.

    This thread has a link..but is a 4000 page single document

    Prius Repair Manual Recommendations | PriusChat


    This link has the manual broken down into sections..I think this one may be the MacDaddy of them all...

    Service Manuals - Google Drive
     
    #48 TMR-JWAP, Dec 6, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
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  9. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    It could also be that the incorrect model of car was selected or the scanner does not have a profile specifically for Toyota Prius. Some manufactures charge extra to load specific car profiles onto their scanners.

    But yeah, I agree with TMR-JWAP those codes are dodgy.
     
    #49 dolj, Dec 7, 2020
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  10. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    https://www.competitionx.com/pdf/chargers/integy-16x7-manual.pdf My integy "indi 16X7v6 charger has arrived . Battery reconditioning in setup stage. Reference back to posts #34,#41,#48 this thread. Battery was used to attempt restart (2) to retrieve codes, Removed, disassembled so each cell was independent and voltage reading was taken of each. 7.69-7.71 volts low/high
     
    #50 Phillip Griffith, Dec 8, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
  11. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    Update: The cells voltage ranged from 7.66 - 7.72. tried to correct it the last post , time had ran out. #28 cell has now been discharged to 7.201 from 7.66 /time 2 hrs plus to do so / in 2 practice sessions combined. I will be reducing all cells to 7.2 volts before load test as a starting point. I intently added .001 to the reading to show the precision of 16x7 instrument reading. Once all are at 7.2 I will load test with a car head light ,timing the discharge levels as I go. Its quicker and more load on battery. Still got to figure out about the internal resistance test. If you see something I'm doing that is in question please give me a heads up. Again: "WHATS WRONG WITH THIS PROCEDURE?" No reply or a thumbs up I will assume it is correct.
     
    #51 Phillip Griffith, Dec 10, 2020
  12. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    You should be charging each module up to full, then do the load test for 2 - 5 min recording the voltage under load at the chosen timing point and while still under load. Do the load test the same way for each module.

    it would not be a good thing for the module to start loading it up under 7.2 V.
     
    #52 dolj, Dec 10, 2020
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  13. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    That brings a question to mind: If the cells are rated at 7.2 volts and mine are currently at 7.7 aren't they overcharged? As I see the relationship of voltage and amp-hour rating -such as- the number of (coulomb) ball bearings in a sack and wieght (voltage) of the sack. Overfill (charge) the sack; it may bust. What I'm trying to say is "I thought I had overcharged my cells so I'm putting things right with thier rating" Is the battery full at 7.2 volts? or something higher?
     
    #53 Phillip Griffith, Dec 10, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2020
  14. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    It is what's called nominal voltage. It is usually at the discharged end of the scale.

    When each cell (in the module) gets achieves 100% charge it won't accept any more charge and the energy input after that gets converted to heat. Provided the charge is gentle enough (0.5C for NiMH) then the overcharge does not do any damage. Use a more aggressive charge rate, and yes, you could damage them.

    100% charge is about 8.4V, depending on the ambient temperature. Colder can go higher, warmer will be lower. (I think - someone correct me if I've got that backward).
     
    #54 dolj, Dec 10, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2020
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  15. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    Excellent! You just saved me 58 hours of discharge time.(7.7to7.2volts) I see now why it is said a hot Prius sometimes taxes the battery. So all of my cells should be about 80% charged at 7.7 volts generally speaking. Now I will start the load test at 7.7 instead of 7.2 and use the check points of 7.2,6.7 and 6.2 to check for differences in the cells from those results. At the completion of that test ;if all cells are at 6.2 (and I find no bad cells in the data collected) then I can use my parallel charging wiring harness (see1st photo) and standard fast charger (6volt (8.2volt actual) / 6amp) to 80%(7.7 volts) and gentle charger (.5 amp) to bring all back to 100% (max. 8 volts) together. Remove wiring harness and if all are within .05 volts of each other then I should be good to use the battery pack as I did before. Thanks
     
    #55 Phillip Griffith, Dec 11, 2020
  16. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    Just about everything you are trying is wrong. That may sound harsh but you are going down paths that will not fix your car.

    The central problem with your car is the engine does not run. You could put a brand new battery in the car and the engine would still not run. Get a Mini VCI cable with Toyota Techsteam software and an old Windows XP computer to read the codes. Codes can be read without trying to start the car. Push the power button twice with your foot off the brake to get in accessory mode and then read the codes. That will save your battery from further abuse. Once you have the real codes progress can be made on the engine.

    I have about a dozen of the Integy chargers you are using. I used them to condition hundreds of modules before moving on to more robust modern chargers. They can fully discharge a module (not cell) in twenty minutes. You said it took two hours too discharge just one cell (module). You must have had the discharge rate set too low. Set the parameters to NiMH, 7 cells, capacity 6000 mAh, charge current 6 amps, discharge current 20 amps, trickle current 0.00 amps, peak adj 3 mV / cell, cycle number 1, delay after charge 3 minutes. These chargers must be watched while charging. There is no safety cut off built in. If they miss the delta V they will keep charging until things blow up.That's why I recommend setting the delta V low at 3mV/cell. For added safety you could add a timer to the chargers power supply to cut off at 90 minutes. I know these modules have 6 cells and I set the charger to 7 cells. The discharge will stop at .9 volts per cell or 6.3 volts when set to 7 cells. That's a safe voltage to discharge a 6 cell module at 20 amps. This is superior to any light bulb load test. The charger will automatically start and stop and record the mAh from full to empty at a known high rate of discharge. Each module will take at least a hour to run one cycle so you got your work cut out for you.

    Discharging all your modules to 1.5 volts probably did them some good. The parallel set up was really hard on the weakest modules. At the end of the discharge they were getting beat down with a baseball bat instead of a slow easy drain.
     
    #56 strawbrad, Dec 11, 2020
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  17. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    Phillip,

    I have the full Gen2 Prius repair manuals. Just send me a PM and I will give you the link to download the proper one for your 2008 Prius (there are two versions; one for 2004-2005 and another for the 2006-2009). Good luck with your toy Prius.

    JeffD
     
    #57 jdenenberg, Dec 11, 2020
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  18. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    I will use your steps to check each module. Thanks
     
    #58 Phillip Griffith, Dec 11, 2020
  19. Phillip Griffith

    Phillip Griffith Junior Member

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    P3193- ran out of fuel (Full Tank) fuel pump?
    P0A80- Replace battery pack (LOL)
    P0131 - O2 circuit low voltage Bank 1 sensor 1 (generic replacement will put old one back in)
    B1031 -
    P0231 -
     
    #59 Phillip Griffith, Dec 11, 2020
  20. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    P0231 refers to the fuel pump not getting power. P0131 is the O2 sensor not getting power. Start checking fuses. You could try to run the engine for a bit with starting fluid.

    Anyone have a good link for the Prius repair manual section for those codes?
     
    #60 strawbrad, Dec 11, 2020
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