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Less than 10k miles on 2016 hybrid pack, worth it?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by richiemoe2, Jan 8, 2021.

  1. richiemoe2

    richiemoe2 Junior Member

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    I'm second guessing myself and I'd love some input!

    My 2006 Prius has 240k miles (I replaced the water pump and transaxle fluid 2yrs ago, spark plugs last year, well maintained by me since 60k is miles?), and i've been playing whack-a-mole for the last 6 years, with bad cells. Also, the car has been sitting since March, and it is throwing a few bad cell codes now, so I've decided to just replace the whole pack. I am picking up a new 12v from Napa tomorrow, so i'll clear the codes and drive it around a bit, to make sure nothing has happened since March and it isn't worth putting money into... I work from home and it is paid off with zero rust, so I figure i'd rather put $1,200 into a car I trust, than a different backup vehicle, especially if I won't be driving it too much. Maybe once-twice a week, once covid is over.

    The one that I found, is a 2016 Prius 4th Gen (NiMH, not lithium) and they told me that the vehicle only has 9,890 miles on it. They got the car a few months back, as it was totaled. They want $945 with no core charge. Something isn't adding up, for a 2016 model, that is VERY low miles. Lets say the car sat for a while, would/could there be any damage to the hybrid cells? I'm in Michigan, so extreme heat wouldn't be a factor. But lets say the car did sit for a year or two, is there anything that I should be worried about?

    I do have replaced cells in my current pack, and I do know that i'll have to take the cells out of this pack and put into my case. Anything else that I should know? Random question, does it make a difference if in the past, I accidentally put the temp sensors on the top of the cells, not the bottom? Hypothetically............... LOL

    The VIN doesn't show anything bad, from what I can tell..... JTDKBRFU1G3023037 (won't let me post links...)
     
  2. richiemoe2

    richiemoe2 Junior Member

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    Edit, I called the place that has the battery for sale and they said the car has sat for about a year. It was totaled, then went to the auction and was bought last March. They couldn't give me the exact date that it was totaled, but said vehicles can't stay at the auction for over 6 months, and the place they bought from moves things quick. So maybe just under a year of sitting? But still, 10k miles is pretty low for 3-3.5 years...
     
  3. TampaPrius.com

    TampaPrius.com Active Member

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    I wouldn't risk a battery that has been sitting around for a year or more. The mileage is not as relevant as age. If you find a 2017 or 2018 with 50k that has not been sitting around you will have better results.
     
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  4. richiemoe2

    richiemoe2 Junior Member

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    I ended up purchasing the HV pack. It does come with a 60 return. So i plan on testing the cells this weekend to see their voltage. If they are bad, the place said I can return them no problem.
     
  5. Aegean

    Aegean Active Member

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    Let us know how it goes. I assume you will just install them as is in the same order as the old pack without any balancing using chargers. Is that correct?
     
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  6. richiemoe2

    richiemoe2 Junior Member

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    Correct, i'll plan on keeping them in the same order. I still need to take the plates off the new orange holder, and put onto the old one.
    With the cells sitting for 9-10 months, and just pulled out of my cold car, they all read 15.5 on my volt reader last night. I'll get them in and drive the vehicle for a bit and see how they do. The Gen 4 box is definitely a much better case than the Gen 2, who would have thought?! LOL
     
  7. Albert Barbuto

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    Congrats on your acquisistion of this young HV pack. You will be rewarded with years of trouble free service.

    You now have two options:

    1) Install the pack in car, and call it a day.

    2) Do a proper "forming charge", which is recommended for either new nimh cells, or lengthy in storage cells.



    My situation mirrors yours, as I also purchased a wreck pack. Details regarding this pack were skimpy, other than the fact that the modules were stamped 01YTH, which is 11/18. Pack was purchased 1/20, and placed in the coldest area of the basement. Ten months later, I put the pack in the car. I did the recomended forming charge before putting the pack in the vehicle. After using the vehicle for a few days, I measured all modules. They were all almost identical, only varying by .02v

    I decided to check how uniform the modules capacity were in relation to one another, and here is where the surprise came from. Doing a Prolong style discharge, at 88 volts, with a mere 100ma load, I found a few modules around 4.8 volts, most around 3 volts, and three modules making their way down to zero volts. I expected a much more uniform pack, due to the age of the pack. To get the uniformity I desired, the weakest modules received a deep cycle or two, one module at a time, right in the car. Pack was discharged again to 88 volts, then charged at 350ma for 30 hours, and another draw down to 88 volts was performed. Much better results were achieved this time.

    So the bottom line is, how uniform do you desire your new pack to be?
     
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  8. richiemoe2

    richiemoe2 Junior Member

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    In my cold Michigan garage, I did a simple test of each battery and every one of them measured 15.55, except the first and last cell, they measured 15.56. The thing that i'm struggling with, is buying a $300 plus charger, for hopefully a one time use.... The VIN number shows that the vehicle was purchased March 2020. The owner of the place that I bought it from, said that since the day it crashed, not just since they purchased it, it has set for less than a year... Maybe if I can rent this device, but I definitely don't want to purchase the charger...

    Since covid, I work 100% from home, and even my side business of life insurance and investments, 100% remote. Once covid is over, I see trying to remember to drive the car at least once a week, the most difficult thing about the car... haha It has 240k miles, so I kind of feel that the battery pack SHOULD last longer than the car.... Which, I could theoretically buy a newer Prius with a bad pack for cheap, and put my newer ones in, with maybe 50k miles.... In a perfect world.... So properly charging the batteries now, would be good. Plus, I have 60 days(50 left) to return the pack, if there are issues with it!!! So knowing now, would be good. I just can't see spending $300 plus on a special charger.... Ideas?
     
  9. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Put them in and run it. If you find some cells are bad return them. If not drive it.
     
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  10. Albert Barbuto

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    The fact that all modules are identical, this is the best you could hope for. The entire pack is more than likely in great condition. :) SOC.jpg

    If you desire to be able to work on the pack, with minimal investment, start reading at post #118.

    Can I borrow your battery charger/balancer/reconditioner? | Page 6 | PriusChat


    To give the hv battery some exercise, without spending a penny, you could also let the vehicle run while parked, with the heater running, with the shifter in neutral. Set parking brake. The car will complain about the batteries not being charged in "N", but this is what you want. Run the pack down to one purple, or no bars at all. Then place shifter in "P". Pack will now charge. If there are any lengthy hills where you live, try to regen the pack to all green bars. This procedure will run the pack from 40% state of charge to 80%. Nimh batteries like exercise. The chart below shows the effects on module capacity, and numerous cycles. Pack is dated 10/03, so yes it is old.
     

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  11. richiemoe2

    richiemoe2 Junior Member

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    Thank you for your post!!! I did a similar test, or the same one, just before I was about to swap out some older cells. About 7-8 years ago, I started swapping battery cells, one or two at a time. Then everything would be fine for almost exactly 6 months.... After a few years, they started going bad more often. The car has sat since March 2020. Summer of 2019, I was swapping out cells, two at a time, almost every other weekend... Once things cooled off, the car was fine from the Fall until I marked it March 2020. My wife and I finally paid off all debt but the house, so we decided we'd rather put $1,200 into a vehicle that i've been maintenancing since 90k miles (240k now), than get a different vehicle and not know what we're getting....

    Thank you for your reminder, once I get the cells back in, i'll definitely drive up and coast down a couple mile long hill that we have by us. The NAPA Battery Terminal Cleaner was out of stock, so I finally got that, and the Battery Terminal Protector. I have a LOT of cleaning to do still.......... I am able to take the plates and nuts off the new pack, though. So just the plastic with gunk on it, and the wires ends that are starting to get corrosion build up...

    I think I might pass on the $14 Amazon things. I can swap out hybrid cells and convert my daughter's Barbie Wrangler Power Wheels to use Dewalt 20v. But messing around with the hybrid cells with some cheap Amazon adapters, I don't feel comfortable doing that just yet.... haha
     
  12. richiemoe2

    richiemoe2 Junior Member

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    How long should I leave the car in Neutral? I didn't get a popup, but I feel like i've seen it before, maybe when the cells had a low charge?

    I did learn something, and re-enforced why I take pictures before I take stuff apart!!! LOL
    The Gen 2 pack, when looking at it with the brain and wires away from me, Block 1, Cell 1 starts Negative on the left and Positive on the right.
    The Gen 4 pack, Block 1, Cell 1 starts with Positive on the left and Negative on the right.
    I'm not sure what made me think to check, but i took all of the Gen 2 and Gen 4 cells out and kept them in order.
    So i kept the Gen 4 cells in order when putting them back in, but turned them around; so far so good!!!
    I used a LOT of the NAPA cleaner (Mac's 1072 Battery Terminal Cleaner) and a wire wheel on the old wires and new plates.
    Then even more NAPA (Mac's 1073 Battery Terminal Protector) when I put it all together....
    Should be good for a while!!!

    When I first turned it on, the pack was blue and halfway charged on the screen. So i let it set for about 5 min in Neutral and I don't think it went down one bar, so I drove it up to the highway, which is a large hill up, then coasted a lot down and it was at the first green bar by the time I got to the bottom. I can't tell if it seemed to have more power or not... The car has sat since March 2020 and it is COLD out right now....

    I did notice I have the water leak problem like many others. It ran down onto the a white mech on the black tub by the air blower and there was ice. So i left the tube off while I cranked the heat and test drove it. Then wiped up the water and connected everything and put the seats back. I'll probably wire wheel, and use JB weld on the crack. I think with the temp changes, the silicone option everyone is using in the youtube videos, might not hold up...

    Here's to another 100k miles!!!!!
    Thanks again for your input!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  13. Albert Barbuto

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    Opening the driver's door will give you the notice about the batteries not being charged while in neutral. Plus a nice loud beep.

    Starting at six blue bars, it will take 30 to 40 minutes to bring the pack down to no bars at all. ( pack 40% )

    Best of luck....
     
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