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Hi all, new Prius v owner

Discussion in 'Prius v Main Forum' started by farmecologist, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    Did the swap include cleaning the passages in the intake manifold? The whole EGR path should get cleaned.
     
  2. MilkyWay

    MilkyWay Active Member

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    Get a gen 4 engine for $1000 with under 50k on it. Toss it in. No oil burning or head gasket or EGR problems.

    Problem solved and much cheaper than putting a bandaid on a junk motor (the gen 3s are decent but too often fail).
     
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  3. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Sound like a simple job. (y) Tell you what...I'll hire you to put it in for me...lol. :whistle:

    And how exactly do we know Gen4 engines won't have "burning or head gasket or EGR problems."? None of them are old enough. In theory the EGR change should be better...but no guarantees.
     
  4. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    I have not seen anyone in the Gen4 section complaining of egr clogging or head gasket failure...
    At least not yet...
     
  5. MilkyWay

    MilkyWay Active Member

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    I'm not a mechanic but my mechanic has done it 3 times now (possibly 4)...Charges me about $800 labor.

    We sold a Prius V and motor blew shortly after so we helped that guy out and went half on repair....and had a couple personals.

    Again, not a mechanic but there is a very nice PDF file on this forum. Only 1 or 2 differences. One has to do with disconnecting a colored wire and putting it in different position...and the other has to do with heating up and rotating something with exhaust manifold (?).

    Other than that plug and play lol.

    They fixed the piston rings on gen 4s because of the widespread and well known oil burning problem....if I am not mistaken....

    They are the same motor just improved upon. Oh, you don't need a parts car, you literally just need your car and the gen 4 engine.

    We (and by we I mean my mechanic -- has done the job about 4x this year).

    https://attachments.priuschat.com/attachment-files/2020/02/182535_Gen_4_Engine_into_Gen_3_Prius_Partial_Guide_-_by_PriusChat_member_Alexander_D.pdf
     
    #225 MilkyWay, Jul 13, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2021
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  6. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    The piston rings and pistons were also revised in the later Gen3 models...2015 for sure but some debate about 2014. There is a chart floating around here somewhere with the change in part numbers.

    The interesting thing is that our v hasn't ever consumed a discernible amount of oil at all ( it has 168K or so on it ). Maybe we lucked out in that regard? The oil consumption thing really stumps me...along with everyone else! Tons of threads around with no consensus whatsoever.
     
  7. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Just an update here. I decided to use this car as an experiment and decided against the head gasket replacement.

    Instead, against my better judgement, I used Bar's Leak HG-1.

    I followed the instructions to the letter and it has worked great so far. I'm ultra skeptical though...about many things...especially the potential to foul the cooling system. However, I have been monitoring via my EngineLink setup and the max temp has stayed the same as before. Again..we'll see if that holds.


    Frankly, if this fails, it will give me the excuse I need to get another vehicle. However, I'm hoping to hold off until we see news about the 'next gen' Hybrid Synergy Drive.

    Oh, and BTW - the brake booster seems to be coming on more than it used to...so I'm thinking that should be replaced at some point too. Are brake boosters DIY'able? (y)

    Anyway, I'll update in a few months if the head gasket seal is holding...or if it failed.
     
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  8. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    There are several improvements in the Gen 4 that have to make a difference:

    Improvement 1) EGR coolers have been around a long time on big trucks, so the concept of an EGR cooler is not new. The EGR cooler in the Gen3 takes its Exhaust Gas from the Exhaust Manifold, before the Catalytic Converter. This is where most cars got their EGR gas from before EGR coolers were implemented. The Gen4 takes its gas after the CAT. This makes a huge difference.

    Taking the exhaust after the CAT means the Gen4 is dealing with less hydrocarbon content to cause clogs. It also means the exhaust gas has cooled a little bit, and at a lower pressure going into the EGR cooler. As a result, the Gen4 EGR cooler can have larger passages, that are less prone to clogging.

    Improvement 2) The Intake Manifold was redesigned. Pre-2015 IMs have the Exhaust Gas coming in from the left side of the engine, and a single straight passage feeds the smaller passages to each cylinder with a right angle bend. I will refer to this as cylinder #1 * (furthest from from the EGR inlet). Cylinder #1 EGR gas has a longer path than Cylinder #4 (about 16 inches longer). The gas going to #1 is cooler, and slightly reduced pressure. It is where the crud builds up first. When that cylinder's passage plugs up, that cylinder burns hotter. That is why the HG goes on that end of the engine first.

    When I cleaned my 2013 v at 94K, I confirmed that the furthest Cylinder passage was more plugged. It is also the hardest to clean. The problem with this uneven distribution is that the EGR performance test tests all 4 cylinders together. Cylinder #1 can be plugged, and the other 3 cylinders only slightly plugged. When the EGR test runs, the aggregate flow of all 4 cylinders may be within limits to prevent a P0401 code, even though Cylinder #1 is starved for exhaust gas, and running too hot.

    At some point, Toyota changed the path of the EGR gas takes in the intake manifold. I think they started using it with the 2015 Prius V. This new design uses a "tournament style" EGR gas distribution path **. The distance the gas travels from the EGR valve to each cylinder is the same, although now each path now has 6 right angle bends, instead of just one bend. The path is probably twice as long to boot. This "tournament style" IM is almost certainly used in the Gen4 engines.

    Toyota spent a lot of engineering effort to make this change, and the IM is a far more complicated (i.e. expensive) hunk of plastic to manufacture. They would not have deployed this new style IM without some testing to see if it improves the problem. At very least, clogging should happen evenly on all cylinders, and the P0401 code should be thrown before a HG or piston blows.

    Improvement 3) Improved oil consumption rings were implemented in models manufactured after a certain date in the 2014 model year for the Prius V. Less burned oil, less hydrocarbons to clog things up. This should have been a no brainer.
    In conclusion, the Gen4 might still have EGR clogging issues, but the P0401 code will be more likely thrown before any serious damage occurs. I would also assume any clogging would happen at a much higher mileage.

    * I am not 100% certain if the cylinder on the passenger side of the engine is officially cylinder #1. There is a crankshaft pulley with no belt on it on that side of the engine. That makes it a pretty good guess as cylinder #1

    ** IIRC @rjparker posted something that described this redesign with pictures, but I can't seem to find it.
     
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  9. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    That experiment has been done thousands of time, with the same result, it doesn't work.
    Only a very temp thing.

    The accumilator is doable. I saw partial video of removing the inverter to get to it.
    Unless you have a lift to get it in the air and remove the suspension...

     
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  10. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Yea, I know.....

    The question still is.... Has the Gen 3 egr cooler clogging problem been resolved in the Gen 4 egr system?
    Only time will tell. I havn't heard from anyone with 4th generation having a head gasket fail like the Gen 3.

     
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  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Which really points to the 3rd gen “smoking gun”. :mad:
     
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  12. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    The house cleaner put it up
    Did 4th Gen fix 3rd Gen? | PriusChat
     
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  13. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Thx for the Gen4 info. Problem is...Even if it is fixed, I don't have a Gen4...and won't for quite a while. :whistle:
     
  14. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Yeah..I knew this would provoke some strong opinions...haha. I'm pretty skeptical myself.

    However, I have talked to a couple people who have used this with success...and it worked long term. These are not Prius vehicles though. The key seems to be how bad the leak is and how well the product is applied. I'm thinking there is a LOT of user error when using these HG seal products.

    I also see that Subaru engines are notorious for HG leaks. Subaru actually recommends a similar Subaru branded product which owners have widely used with success ( search on SOA635071 ).

    So I though I'd give it a shot. If it stops working...ehh...no big whoop. (y)
     
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  15. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    I have seen a product that is old school work for months without clogging things but they did multiple flushes to ensure no coolant remained. But it did fail because none of the underlying causes were rectified, primarily the excessive oil consumption. When it did fail it was engine time instead of just a head gasket.

    So for scamming flippers it is a tool of the trade. Sell off the car and let the new buyer suffer several months later. As a result, when we see buyers ask for advice before purchase, I say no. And then there is a chorus of owners who jump in and suggest otherwise because they have not seen it with their own eyes. Until they do.
     
  16. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Yeah...trust me...I'm skeptical that this will continue to work. I don't have any noticeable oil consumption or other issues though. I have also been through the gauntlet of maintenance items ( Full EGR teardown/cleaning/replacement, intake manifold cleaning, etc, etc...- see prior posts ). Frankly, It is rather disappointing that the HG failure happened even though all the 'suspected' culprits were taken care of.

    And yeah...I also say no now when it comes to a Gen3 purchase...except for possibly the 2015 model. That is why we acquired a Prius C for our daughter after her 2010 was totaled in a recent accident ( not her fault and she is ok ). (y) See signature link for more info.
     
  17. MilkyWay

    MilkyWay Active Member

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    What are the miles and price you would want, approximately, if you were to sell? I have a 2016 motor sitting around waiting to drop in a gen 3 (did the gen 4 swap and car got rear-ended, pulled parts/motor and scrapped)
     
  18. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Time for a spring update. The v is going strong on Bar's Leak HG-1 since September, 2021. Guess, I'm the lab rat for doing something like this vs. a head gasket replacement. I was actually surprised it got me through the winter...and no discernible coolant loss anymore either.

    Not saying it will continue to work...and I'm continuing to be skeptical...but lets see what happens.

    On a related note, it just so happens that ChrisFix on YouTube did a long term head gasket sealer video...and he also ended up using Bar's Leak HG-1. He had some pretty good results with it...but it is essential it gets used correctly...and I think this may be where Prius users can go wrong with a product like this since you have to go into 'maintenance mode' and get the car up to the point where the thermostat opens, etc...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3_kDiQb7lE
     
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Interesting video .... showing that the head gasket material works, but you may very well only get 10K miles out of the fix. Also of note, that it may very well be the gasket is just fine, and it might just as easily be the head got warped - that the sealer is temporarily making allowances for, until the 10K mile limits (or so) finally expire.
    .
     
  20. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Yep, the video really surprised me. Really cool that his timeframe was over two years!

    At any rate, the video at least gave me a small bit of confirmation after using the stuff and feeling like a lab rat. :ROFLMAO:

    10K miles should be more than enough...since I'm working from home...and will most likely will continue to do so. I don't drive nearly as much as I used to...

    My daughter, on the other hand, drives the Prius C. She has to drive 50+ miles a day! Hopefully the C can hold up. However, the engine in the C doesn't seem to have nearly as many issues as the one in the Gen3.