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Do I need these services?

Discussion in 'Prime Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Godawgs, Jan 9, 2024.

  1. Godawgs

    Godawgs Junior Member

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    I have a 2018 Prime with 31,000 miles. My last service was oil change/tire rotation at 25,000 miles during which the dealer suggested the following. Do I really need all of these?

    *FUEL INJECTION SERVICE 3-PART: Preventative Maintenance Recommended Every 3 Years $239.96

    *DECARB 2-PART: Preventative Maintenance Recommended Every 3 Years $169.95

    *Brake Flush: Due By Time (Every 3 Years) $169.95

    *AUTO TRANS WORLD STANDARD / HYBRID DRAIN & FILL: Due By Time (Every 5 Years) $235.00

    *ALIGNMENT: Rear Total Toe Out Of Adjustment $225.99
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Have you had a look at the Toyota USA Schedule, in the Warranty and Maintenance Booklet. If its missing a pdf can be downloaded from Toyota Tech Info website.

    FWIW none of the above is listed. Some of it is warranted, eventually. The transaxle drain and fluid I’d do now. But anything over $100 USD is a rip off. For dealership with a lift, it’s maybe 1/2 hour labour and $40 worth of fluid. Comparable to an oil and filter change.
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    just follow the maintenance schedule that came with the car, but with your low miles, follow the time (months) guideline and severe service
     
  4. pasta4breakfast

    pasta4breakfast Junior Member

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    You certainly don't need all of these services. None of them are mentioned in the owner's manuel/maintenance guide. If you plan to keep the car a long time (beyond 10-15 years old), you might want to get the World Standard transmission fluid drain and fill done at your earliest convenience. There is much debate about this, but prius chat users who do them early tend to report the color looks dark and then clears up quite a bit during subsequent changes. Though color may not be a reliable indicator of quality of the ATF fluid, people theorize that there is more wear during the beak-in period and thus you may be getting rid of metal shavings by changing the transmission fluid early. This is claimed to prolong the life of the transmission. If you are being conservative, you would do the drain and fill at your earliest convenience. If you are more of a gambler, you could just never replace this fluid. The owner's manual/maintenance guide does not recommend an interval for replacing this fluid. Some people said their dealership didn't recommend the service because they claimed the WS ATF was supposed to last the life of the vehicle. There are many opinions as to what this means, the life of the warranty (6 yrs/60,000 miles), the average duration the first owner will own a car (8 yrs/80,000-100,000 miles), 15yrs/150,000 -200,000 miles. If you don't travel up hill much, don't accelerate quickly and don't tow, I would not be surprised if the fluid lasts the life of the vehicle. At this rate, it doesn't sound like you will put more than 100,000 miles on it by the time it is 20 years old. If it were me, I would probably replace it now or within the next 3 years and if your current driving habbits continue, you will probablynever have to replace it again. I currently am following the Car Care Nut's recommendation for hybrids, which is to replace it every 7-9 years or 70,000-90,000 miles.

    You might need a brake fluid flush soon, but not every 3 years, probably more like 5-7 years. You can buy brake fluid testers on Amazon for under $20. It is just a pen shaped tool with two prongs on it. You open up the brake fluid resovior, turn on your tool and stick it in there. If it says there is too much moisture, it is time to replace the fluid. I flushed the brake fluid on my 2013 prius C in 2018 when it had 86,000 miles on it. I did not know how easy it was to test at the time. I now test it every year and in 2023 it was still below 2% moisture, which is fine. They are not very accurate, so if it still says the brake fluid is good at 7 years old, I might just replace it anyway. Here is a good youtube video on toyota brake fluid.


    You do not need an alignment unless you notice symptoms improper allignment. If you notice uneven wear on your tires before you change them or if your car pulls to one side when letting go of the stearing wheel for a second, then it is probably time for an alignment. Otherwise I don't think it is necessary. Here is a good video on alignment. It starts talking about alignment at 11:09 minutes in.


    I am not sure what the decarb 2-part service is. Maybe this is cleaning the throttle body only and the fuel injection 3 part service is cleaning the fuel injectors and cleaning the throttle body. This is probably not necessary unless you buy gas that isn't top tier and very rarely drive at highway speeds. If your fuel injectors are dirty, I think you will notice a significant drop in mpg. My wife or I authorized this service on my prius C at 86,000 miles before I knew any better and we noticed no improvement in fuel econonomy or the way the car drove. A dealer recommended it again at 137,000 miles, saying my throttle body was dirty. I was highly suspicious, so I drove a good distance to a family member's independent mechanic. He looked at the throttle body and said it was clean. Here is a good video on fuel injector services.
     
    #4 pasta4breakfast, Jan 28, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2024
  5. pasta4breakfast

    pasta4breakfast Junior Member

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    I agree, but price will depend on the area. Labor rates for dealerships could easily be around 200 dollars or more per hour in an expensive metro areo. West Coast Toyota (Long Beach, California) quoted a similar price when they recommended the service. I doubt any dealer will do it for less than $140 with current inflation. You can probably find an independent mechanic who will do it for around 100 dollars or maybe a little less. Just insist that they use Genuine Toyota WS transmission fluid. If they won't get it, you can offer to get it from your Toyota's parts department and bring it to them.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Toyota doesn’t actually say anything.

    Ditto for brake fluid change, at least Toyota USA. Toyota Canada says tri-yearly or 48k kms.

    What do you feel is a fair price for an oil and filter change? Because the transaxle fluid change is pretty much the same.
     
  7. pasta4breakfast

    pasta4breakfast Junior Member

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    My mistake. Didn't realize Toyota didn't say anything. I edited my post to say "Some people said their dealership didn't recommend the service because they claimed the WS ATF was supposed to last the life of the vehicle."

    It is hard to say what a fair price is for an oil change because many shops treat it as a loss leader. I doubt they make a profit on 60-80 dollar full synthetic oil changes. Kelly blue books says a "fair [price] range" is about $62-$95 for an oil change for a 2018 Prius Prime in Portland, Oregan. Consumer Reports, says the "estimated price range" is $149-$172 in Portland, Oregan. I don't know how they came up with such different numbers. Maybe Consumer Reports used the general labor rate multipled by the time it takes to do the job, because I am sure anyone can find prices well below that for an oil change. Thus, maybe $149-$172 is a fair price in for a transmission fluid change if it is a comparable job. Kelly blue book says the "fair [price] range" for a transmission fluid change on a 2018 Prius Prime is over $300 in Portland, Oregan. I don't know why it is so high. Based off of the information you provided, it sounds like a fair price is whatever the shop's labor rate is for 30 minutes +$44 to $60 for 4 quarts of WS ATF. $11 per quart is the cheapest I could find through an authorized dealership and MSRP is a little over $15 per quart. I would guess anything well under $200 is fairly competitive for a dealership. I still think OP can probably find a mechanic that will do it for $100 or maybe a little less, depending on the area and the shop. Why would anyone buy a $15 simple sandwich at restaurant when the ingredients cost a couple dollars and the cook is making close to minimum wage? They are paying for the overhead and the profit. Think of the overhead a dealership's service department must have, including fancy waiting rooms, free shuttle service, rent or a mortgage that is probably hundreds of thousands of dollars per year plus tons of staff that don't directly service the car (schedulers, porters, service advisors, shuttle drivers, etc.). Someone is paying for that. Considering the service department is either the 1st or 2nd most profitable department in a dealerhsip, it definately is the customer. I didn't mind paying high prices at a dealership I trusted, but I currently do not trust most dealerships near me.
     
    #7 pasta4breakfast, Jan 29, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2024
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  8. sylvaing

    sylvaing Senior Member

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    There is a non serviceable magnet at the bottom of the transmission case to catch metal shavings. It's unfortunate that's not serviceable, The lower unit of my boat engine drain plug has a magnet at the end and yearly, when changing its hydraulic fluid, there are always some shavings on it.
     
  9. Kenny94945

    Kenny94945 Active Member

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    My vote: Brake fluid flush
    One hour labor + fluid (@20) seems reasonable.
    I'd comment that the Toyota maintence computer may be required, there are some "tricks" that differ from the old school brake flushing procedures.

    My vote: Transmission fluid change.
    One hour labor + Toyota brand oil only (@60.00) would be reasonable.
    I'd comment that then you will not again need that service till 100K mileage; it is good maintenance to change at 30K.

    Alignment... if tires show abnormal wear, then yes and rear alignments are unique on Prius...do a search... can't comment on price.
    I'd comment that 40K mileage out of 300 hardness rated tires should be expected if rotated.

    My vote: All the others
    No.
    You have low mileage for any fuel injector debris or carbon build up issues.
    At 100K mileage then the carbon may be an issue...do a search...can't recall what we call this issue...above co-member Mendel will know.
    Just use "Top Teir" fuel (Shell, Chevron etc.).

    In closing, enjoy your car :)
     
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  10. sylvaing

    sylvaing Senior Member

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    Not only that, it's a Prime so there is probably way less mileage with the engine actually running than what the odometer shows.
     
  11. pasta4breakfast

    pasta4breakfast Junior Member

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    Does anyone know if the transmission drain and fill requires a procedure to get the transmission up to a specific temperature to make sure the transmission isn't overfilled? In this video at 1:39, the car care nut explains why to get the transmission to a specific temperature before adjusting the fluid level after filling the transmission with new fluid. He then explains the fluid adjustment procedure at 8:54. However, I have never seen a video of anyone do this on a prius, prius c or prius prime.

     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Maybe the videos about some other Toyota? Repair manual doesn’t mention. It’s just a drain and fill.

     
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  13. pasta4breakfast

    pasta4breakfast Junior Member

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    Well, I just took my Prius C to Toyota of Orange for its final prepaid oil change. The service advisor checking me in recommended I replace the transmission fluid based on years/miles. When I told them I just did, they asked me where I got it done and how much I paid. I told them I was trying out an independent mechanic and they did it for $140. The services advisor said they could have done it for $150. Of course they have never offered me that price before. In fact, the last time they gave me quote back in 2022, their outrageous estimate was $329.95. Thus, I would say anything under $150 is a good price for a metro area dealership in the U.S.A. The service advisor was clearly trying to make me regret doing it somewhere else, so if they could have done an ATF drain and fill for less than $140, I bet they would have said so. I believe the Prius C only takes 3.5 quarts instead of the 3.9 quarts in a Prius Prime, but I doubt that would change the price much, if at all. Portland, OR might be a little cheeper than Orange, CA though.
     
  14. Godawgs

    Godawgs Junior Member

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    That is certainly correct for my Prime and driving habits. I run on electric most of the time and am averaging 260 mph for the life of the car.
     
  15. sylvaing

    sylvaing Senior Member

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    We're talking about a street legal car here, not a Formula One or a plane :D

    But seriously, I also get around 260 mpg on mine. Most engine usage is during winter where the engine has to run because it's too cold for the heat pump.
     
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  16. Louis19

    Louis19 Active Member

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    My usage is 70% EV and 30% hybrid , so I'm happy with 147mpg I get on average per year
     
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