LiBSU - Redesigning the "Battery Support Unit" to Support Lithium

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by mudder, Jun 7, 2024.

  1. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    You want the Sodium battery....


     
  2. black_jmyntrn

    black_jmyntrn Senior Member

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    Agreed! Anything else you try will be met with a brick wall stopping your forward progress...

    Well.... Unless you have a PHEV like me then... you can get well over 70kWh like I am about to... :)
     
  3. Brian1954

    Brian1954 Senior Member

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  4. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Great post referral. Do I want a salty battery? Two thumbs down fart noise!!!
     
  5. hurricos

    hurricos Junior Member

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    A few questions RE: LiBSU - share what you're willing:

    - Will any parts be mechanically interchangeable between the Gen2 (XW20) and NiMH Gen3 (XW30) Prius? I have gotten two Gen2 Prii back on the road after battery issues in the last year, and own a third one (it's part of why I'm less active on InsightCentral). I had the good experience of tearing down a MY2016 Prius V NiMH battery and installing it in an '07 Prius, so I really appreciate the mechanical interchangeability.

    - How much of the battery enclosure do you expect to reuse in your design?

    - Are you still in the selection process for cells?

    - Note: I'm happy to contribute however I can to support expansion to cover the Gen2 Prius, assuming I can distribute my work under an open license.
     
  6. mudder

    mudder Active Member

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    I'm designing LiBSU to be battery agnostic. It'll have several serial buses (USB, isoSPI, SPI, UART, CAN, etc), and will support pretty much any lithium battery with an onboard BMS (or a breakout BMS node that I will also offer, for the DIY crew).

    My initial focus is Gen3 Prius (including Prius V), but Gen2 Prius is very similar mechanically from my product's PoV.

    This will depend on the battery you use:
    First offering is a complete drop-in unit that uses OEM Toyota cells, including Toyota's onboard lithium BMS.
    Mechanically it will fit in the Gen2/3/V Prius and all similar.

    Later offering is a blade-like daisy-chained isoSPI solution using what I call a '4xBlade' (because it's four OEM blades wide). There will be a single '2xBlade' for those cars whose OEM blade count isn't wholly divisible by four. 4xBlade considerably reduces cost, because a properly designed BMS has a fixed price per node (i.e. there's very little price difference between QTY4 & QTY8 cells... the cost is in the node, not the cell count). Mechanically it will fit in any Toyota vehicle that uses blades.

    Not for the above products, but again LiBSU is battery agnostic (just like LiBCM).

    I'm doing Gen3 Prius first, followed by Gen2.
    I'm working on showing a working prototype soon.
     
  7. mudder

    mudder Active Member

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    FYI: Here's a color-coded preview of the Gen3's serial protocol:
    [​IMG]

    ...it's a little more complicated than the Honda Insight's BATTSCI frames, but still not too difficult to figure out if you know what you're doing. Fun problem to reverse engineer. For reference, the Honda system packs all this data into 16x fewer bytes (24 vs. 384). Not saying Toyota's method is bad... just very verbose.

    I'm still trying to figure out what a couple bytes do, but the other QTY382 are fully deciphered. I believe one of the two unknown bytes is actually an error in Toyota's official serial data stream (0x37B10 is always identical to 0x37B11). For now I intend to just duplicate the as-found behavior, although for academic purposes I'd like to figure that out eventually.

    Overall I think Toyota made some odd design decisions on the BSU. I prefer Honda's system of having separate battery and motor control computers (BCM & MCM, respectively). Toyota does things differently, which means the BSU ends up passing a bunch of pack-specific information to the main computer. It's less modular, but obviously it works.
     
    #27 mudder, Aug 22, 2025 at 6:32 PM
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2025 at 6:51 PM
  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    @ChapmanF Well, it's much easier to clean it up :D.
     
    mudder likes this.
  9. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Yes, you do.