Sea-level doom from Antarctic melting

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Sep 23, 2024.

  1. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Senior Member

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    No need to cut us off, we've sworn it off already.
     
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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Good thing you are not obsessed by them living rent free between your ears.

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  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    “It was "global warming" but they had to change it to "climate change" because it started cooling 10 years ago.”

    @PriusTech invitation received and accepted! I and others post these around here from time to time to clear up misunderstandings. As the timescale mentioned was decades, we could look at data on that:

    https://crudata.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/#:~:text=HadCRUT%20is%20a%20global%20temperature%20dataset%2C%20providing%20gridded,the%20hemispheres%20and%20the%20globe%20as%20a%20whole.

    HadCRUT5.0Analysis_300.png


    https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/global-temperature/?intent=121


    GlobalTemp.png



    https://psl.noaa.gov/data/timeseries/month/BERKELEYGLBLT/


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    Is notable because Richard Muller founded the Berkeley Earth Project to look independently at temperature records. Hoping to uncover fudged data (or something along those lines) they instead found confirmation.


    Another US dataset is LMOST but I do not immediately find their current graphic. If any of you do, you will find it similar.


    https://www.data.jma.go.jp/tcc/tcc/products/gwp/temp/ann_wld.html


    Is a less-frequently mentioned analysis, so I enjoy including it:


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    “ … it started cooling 10 years ago.” Any of the brief reductions in recent decades could be called that “it”. I guess.


    https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2016JD024751

    Contains Figure 2 showing the 2000-year timescale relevant to great human advances:


    fig2.png


    All of these compilations/analyses disclose their data sources, workflows, and funding sources. Some readers will have noticed that alternative views (as shown in earlier posts) lack such transparency. But that has not lowered re-posters zeal.

    “It was "global warming" but they had to change it to "climate change"

    This shift in wording is most often attributed to (then Republican pollster) Frank Luntz circa 1998 writing to Republican leaders that they ought to use this softer term. He is the they. Interestingly he has also ‘reconsidered his position’ as did Richard Muller (above):

    https://thebulletin.org/2019/07/top-republican-message-maker-frank-luntz-calls-for-climate-action/
     
  4. PriusTech

    PriusTech Member

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    I voted for Obama his first term

    I'm not blind to the mistakes Trump makes, but I'm pretty sure Progressives don't even know that Obama presided over the biggest environmental crime and the biggest financial crime in the history of man.

    And no, appointed puppet presidents aren't living in my head rent free or otherwise, just here to red pill. But you already took the blue one so it's just here for the dear reader.

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    #64 PriusTech, Sep 2, 2025 at 12:50 AM
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2025 at 1:33 AM
  5. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Senior Member

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  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    If there are readers here unsure about the whole climate-change thing, please see these simple things.

    Fossil fuel combustion now emits 10 petagrams carbon per year to atmosphere, that having increased rapidly in recent decades. Energy from that combustion is great for humans!

    About half of that persists as CO2 in atmosphere with sequestration of the rest about equally done by land and sea biology. Resulting atmospheric +[CO2] trend is famous by Keeling, and its future reporting will not be disappeared. Notwithstanding current brief political excursions.

    CO2 in atmosphere absorbs outgoing infrared and warms troposphere and surface. This heating has become consistent +T at global scales for most recent 5 decades. Some seem to continue pretending it is not happening, and I hope that pretense is not done without compensation.

    How next 5 decades will go is disputed. Even the most gloomy projections don’t lead us towards comprehensive energy, water and food-supply plans whilst +T and +[CO2] continue. No one does, it seems to me, and I am sad about that. As things stand, we will probably have about 2 decades of ‘surprises’ before governments make real efforts towards comprehensive responses.

    The worst of it for me is, being an old person, I will die before those comprehensive responses come. Most readers here and by demography most people will see more. I sincerely hope it goes well, and that you treat all current deceivers kindly.
     
  7. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Senior Member

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    A tonne is one million grams. Who had the bright idea to use petagrams instead?
     
  8. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

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    The fact there are climate deniers, climate enlightened and climate activist, will amount to nothing, we are already past the tipping point, those in the really cold regions will think it's great, until the climate swings become so intense they can no longer buy food because the rain will either be none, or so much it washes the top soil and the crops away.

    When I look at my new grandson and granddaughter, what do I say when they are old enough to understand .... sorry isn't going to be enough, we'll be dead because we will be too feeble to tolerate the wild season changes, all the money made by those who profited from it, won't be able to buy any more yrs of living the high life, they certainly aren't setting up a great new world for their offspring ...... so what was/is the point of all of the fairytales about "global cooling" and "it's nothing to do with anything they did", they won't be remembers as the great business tycoons they think they are now, they will be remembered as the greedy generation that made life so difficult for future generations that their names will become curse words ......

    The thing that is going to be really hard for so many, "We didn't know" simply won't wash, I'd hate to be one of those labelled a "Climate Denyer" when the tipping point becomes undeniable and the realisation that it's simply too late to fix it .... as the "system" breaks down, the young ones left that have to face what will be a harsh reality, you can bet they won't view those that denied them a rosy future with any sort of compassion, more likely the target of frustration

    T1 Terry
     
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    "Who had the bright idea to use petagrams instead?"

    Petagram is 10^12 kilogram or 10^15 gram. So not really 'instead'. Consistent numerical prefixes were established by the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry for SI Systeme Internationale.

    Indexes
    They are in alphabetical order there which adds a bit of gratuitous confusion.

    I wrote a manuscript where a journal reviewer insisted that I write "tonne" instead of "ton". Neither are IUPAC/SI units (megagram is) but I humored them.
     
  10. Paul Gregory

    Paul Gregory Senior Member

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    I've never thought it was a good approach to get all panicked and hysterical about a problem.
    I've always had better results from taking it rationally.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    A thousand grams is a kilo, and a thousand kilos…, yeah, that’s right.

    Oy, my brain is full.
     
  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I'm not sure I'd have a strong preference between "petagram" or "billion tonnes" either way. They're three syllables each and about equally easy to say. As long as I remember my SI prefixes, I know just how many grams a petagram is, without having to first remember how many a tonne is.

    I have a feeling that for people who rarely grapple with really big numbers, "petagram" and "billion tonnes" may be about equally hard to grasp, and for people who do that more as a matter of course, they're both about equally easy.

    Edit: I guess for older speakers of British English, "billion tonnes" could also lend itself to misinterpretation and "milliard tonnes" might be clearer to them. Or just petagram.
     
  13. PriusTech

    PriusTech Member

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    So what are Bill Gates, Larry Fink, Jamie Diamond, the Democrats, and the Rinos doing about it? They already moved our industry to China where they build 2 new coal fired power plants per week, and they want to leave it there. They are moving 3rd worlders into the 1st world by the millions so we can have more cars. They want more GMO's and glyphosate so we can finish ruining the topsoil. Gavin Newsom spent $20 Billion in 10 years building a high speed rail bridge that's not even 10 miles long. Obama dumping a world record amount of crude oil, topping it with chemicals and letting the criminals go free?

    It's still only a 150 ppm increase in CO2 over 150 years. And around 1 deg F rise in temp. Nothing compared to what happens naturally. It's entirely possible we are just holding off another ice age, it's actually due.

    I hold out hope for the younger generation, Boyan Slat was only 16 years old when he started Ocean Cleanup, the only major entity that's working on cleaning up plastic garbage worldwide.

    Bill Gates Larry Fink et al isn't doing anything to fix any of the major environmental problems, they are just making it worse. Their "solution" is to kill everyone off.
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  14. PriusTech

    PriusTech Member

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    China has a weird habit of building more junk than the market can afford and then just dumping it. Houses, bicycles, EV cars, everything gets built and then thrown away, often before even being used

    Tell us Tochatihu, how does 2 new coal fired power plants per week fit into your wishes for CO2 reduction? You do know our crooked politicians and corporations intentionally moved our industry to China right?

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    #74 PriusTech, Sep 2, 2025 at 12:59 PM
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2025 at 1:16 PM