Just need to vent...

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Mendel Leisk, Jul 6, 2022.

  1. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    You should have a GFIC on the first outlet in the chain, because the garage is like your bathrooms. There's a chance water can get into your power tools or outlets can accidentally get sprayed. My garage GFIC actually shares it's outlet with my master bathroom. Ask me how I figured that one out?:(:whistle: Couldn't charge my car and run a heater at the same time; until I installed the level-2 charger to get the car off that circuit.
     
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  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    Considering @ColoradoBoo mention as well, guess I better look into GFI. Appreciate it's a weak argument, that nothing in the garage currently is GFI.

    Ours are wired like a main road, with side-roads at each outlet. I believe what the call parallel. If any one outlet fails the current can still flow (on the main road).

    Of the top of my head, one GFI at the beginning, wired in series?
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    I have gfci in the garage, but I also remember growing up without them, and never hearing of a problem
     
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  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If they are wired as a chain (or even if some are paralleled, but chained from a first one), then it is easy to swap the first one for a GFCI, with the supply wired to its LINE terminals, and the wiring to the next outlets wired to its LOAD terminals.

    (There's probably a stern warning on the GFCI never to mix up the terminals and wire the supply to the LOAD ones, as it won't be a GFCI then. Often the LOAD terminals are more deeply recessed and may be covered by a sticker you should only remove if you'll be chaining it this way.)

    If all of the outlets are paralleled, it is easier to go swap the associated breaker in the breaker panel with a GFCI one. Those are now commonplace. (Even breakers combining GFCI and AFCI functions are commonplace now.)

    A GFCI breaker has an additional terminal for the branch circuit neutral to be returned to it. That can require slight rearrangement in the panel, where that neutral now probably lands on a big shared neutral busbar. You move that to the neutral screw on the new breaker, and then the new breaker's coiled white wire goes to the neutral bus instead.
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    Thanks @ChapmanF, duly copied and pasted text and path.

    Found this:

     
    #3205 Mendel Leisk, Jan 31, 2026 at 2:29 PM
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2026 at 2:43 PM
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  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    My house was built in the late 1980s, and originally had just a single GFCI outlet, which covered both bathrooms.

    For garages, I have heard of problems, that is why code now requires GFCIs there too. At some point I converted the first garage outlet, the closest to both the electric service panel and to outdoor access, to a GFCI. But not wanting the freezer on the downstream outlet to suffer an unnoticed power loss, I wired it to not be GFCI protected, despite being beyond the GFCI outlet. And clearly marked it as not GFCI protected.

    Anyone running outdoor electric tools or appliances from inside the garage will very likely be using the closer protected outlet, not the farther unprotected one.

    Later upgrades have produced more GFCI outlets, e.g. exterior outlets on opposite ends of the house (required to service minisplit heat pumps, but used as general purpose), and a new bathroom circuit. The added EVSE outlet for the PHEV has the only AFCI/GFCI breaker in the main service panel. But I haven't converted any other outlets to current code standards.
     
    #3206 fuzzy1, Jan 31, 2026 at 5:45 PM
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2026 at 9:27 PM
  7. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    I used to stick forks into the outlets; hummm how does this work.....
    You never heard of a problem until, 'Murder she wrote' dropped a toaster into a bath tub. Later removed it, reset the circuit breaker and said he died of a heart attack or he was making toast while taking a bath.;)o_O:LOL::ROFLMAO: What's the other one; "how to get away with murder"? Entertainment drives a lot of dumb laws.... That's what happens when you listen to the hype rather than follow the data and logic.:whistle:
     
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  8. VelvetFoot

    VelvetFoot Active Member

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    I actually remember sitting on the floor as a kid and doing something like that. A paper clip may have been involved. An educational moment. Also a Seinfeld moment.

     
  9. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    Or a GFCI breaker in the panel. That is what my garage outlets have.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk MMX GEN III

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    We've got a freezer in the garage too. Just acquired recently, and was somewhat instrumental in my reno's: our garage has west facing double doors, and while we've upgraded from solid wood to insulated, steel-sheathed doors, it's still gets moderately toasty in summer. I've installed an in-wall, 1100 CFM fan with magnetic/gravity shutters, and a make-up air grill as well.

    With only 2 floor-level outlets, it was bugging me, having a long, funky extension cord to the fan, decided to add an extra outlet, convenient to the fan. Plus a thermostat. Cobbled frames for all, the make-up air grill, on the inside I caved and purchased a gravity shutter fan, and made it a frame proud of the wall, with a pocket for bug screen. On the outside I ended up making a grill, with rodent mesh on the back.
     

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    #3210 Mendel Leisk, Jan 31, 2026 at 9:50 PM
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2026 at 6:17 AM
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  11. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    That reminds me that I did add a third outlet to the garage circuit, so that the garage door opener I added could be plugged in, not hardwired. Now easily unplugged (from a stool) when we travel.

    When replacing the dishwasher, I also put in a real outlet back there too, in the empty cavity next to it. So in the rare cases where the dishwasher needs to be pulled out (for replacement, hiding kittens, and plumbing reasons, so far), it is much easier to disconnect.
     
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  12. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace 2025 Camry XLE FWD

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    Why would you hide your kittens? LOL ;)
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    So no one steals them.
     
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  14. ColoradoBoo

    ColoradoBoo Senior Member

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    Yep modern homes are built pretty efficiently, which can be a bad thing. They install a circuit breaker board and use up almost all of the space. Mine only has 2 available slots since I had them install two 240-outlets for laundry rooms, one upstairs and one in the basement. (Smartest upgrade we did when we got it built.) So I used one for the garage so I'm down to just one if I ever want to add something else. (Like a sunroom in the back.)

    So what does that mean when someone buys an EV or a plug-in? Usually means hiring an electrician to install another circuit board to handle the new extra load, and I've heard some people had to dish out $2,500 for that. (Hey, let's spend $2,500 in order to save $100 a year on gasoline but, then, spend an extra $50 a month on electricity!)
     
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  15. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    People are funny creatures......
    You would just run a sub panel next to your main; your probably close to the main panels max capacity anyways.;)
     
    #3215 BiomedO1, Feb 1, 2026 at 10:23 AM
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2026 at 10:39 AM
  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    You can also put those dual skinny switches in the same breaker slot -
    That's how we roll

    .
     
    #3216 hill, Feb 1, 2026 at 10:47 AM
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2026 at 10:58 AM
  17. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    The real ev "charger" upgrade cost is when the main service is already maxed out in kw's, not in breaker spaces which can be easily accommodated. In other words when you have a 100 amp service but now need a 200 amp service to quick charge your ev. The utility may have to change the transformer, service lines and meter so that your electrician can change your main breakers and panel.

    However there are smart breakers available which will prioritize loads such that your electric dryer or oven disables your charger circuit. This can eliminate the need for a new service. It can also take advantage of time of day rate savings.
     
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  18. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Some new foster kittens discovered a very narrow path to squeeze their way in there as a hiding place, and didn't come out for a while. I had to pull out the dishwasher to properly block that path to prevent repeats.

    Our permanent cats were too large to have ever squeezed through there.