“Hey, Hands on the Wheel, Bud!”

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by mr88cet, Jul 12, 2020.

  1. Hicksite

    Hicksite Junior Member

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    Well, if it can drive the car better than you can, then I guess it’s a good thing you have it!
     
  2. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I don’t think it’s a matter of what s/he or any other driver can do.

    I think the twin goals of OpenPilot and other ADAS are the same as for traditional, non-adaptive cruise control:
    1. Make driving easier, and
    2. Let the driver concentrate upon what s/he does best.

    But just “more so” than ordinary cruise control or DRCC.

    In short, best of both worlds:
    * Not flawlessly, but most if the time, the car takes care of the piddly stuff, like holding a constant speed and staying centered in-lane,
    So that,
    * The driver can concentrate more upon navigation, looking out for sources of danger, etc.
     
  3. Hicksite

    Hicksite Junior Member

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    Admirable goals! I will keep my hands on the wheel.
     
  4. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Even if I had OpenPilot, I’d still keep my hands on the wheel!
     
  5. Prime8

    Prime8 Member

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    It is just an extension of cruise control. Thats like saying your going to keep your feet on the pedals when the cruise control is active.

    You keep your head, hands, and feet at the ready if needed. More available resources to obtain a better awareness of your surroundings and anticipate how to best interact with them, lest they interact with you.

    I know what speed my car will not exceed. I know that my car, under most circumstances will not drive into another vehicle in front of me. I know that my car will stay in the middle of the lane that I am in. Therefore, I can pay more attention to all of the other things that might be missed if I still had to do those things.

    You never give up the responsibility of operating the car. No matter how advanced the driver aids are. They are there to help you, not replace you, yet.

    There are situations that we as humans can recognize, anticipate, and react to, before they happen.
    There are some situations that no advanced driver aids can handle yet. Removal of the human from the loop, at the current levels of available technologies will, and did, result in failure.

    Don't worry though. We work toward that goal every day. When we arrive at that destination, our journey will be over.
     
  6. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    @Prime8 Since you avoided my question I did some digging. It is NOT street legal. The software license, developed after the NHTSA killed the original project, says it is for research only. They disclaim legal responsibility though

    From Comma.ai Releases Self-Driving Technology to the Public

    This forum is primarily about using the Prius legally on public roads. Please cease your promotion of the product based on your illegal usage.
     
    #46 Prodigyplace, Jul 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
  7. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    I do get that, and in that sense, what you’re saying is reasonable.

    However, there are three at-least-arguable differences between keeping your foot on the pedal with cruise control and hands on the wheel with lane-centering engaged:

    First, cruise control is designed to allow you to depress the accelerator past what cruise control selects. So, if you rest your foot on the pedal, it’s a near-certainty that you’ll unintentionally increase your speed past what cruise-control specifies. In contrast, lane-centering systems like OpenPilot’s, Tesla AutoPilot’s, or Nissan ProPilot’s, resist any unintentional ... drift ... in your manual-steering input. They do let you overpower them if you choose, but unlike accelerator-pedal position under cruise control, you very definitely know when you’re overriding lane-centering controls!

    Second, accelerator-pedal position is a very imprecise control compared to the steering wheel. There’s only an inch or two of travel in the pedal, compared to the two-and-a-half revolutions of the steering wheel. The accelerator pedal is also not a proportional control like steering — there’s no exact accelerator-pedal position corresponding to 45MPH, for example. Also, hands are far-more-precise at controlling things than are feet. All combined, it’s much more feasible to cooperatively manage the steering wheel than the accelerator pedal, because the wheel is a far-more-precise and exacting control that you feel exactly and even see.

    Third, there’s not much reason not to keep your hands on the wheel. You’ve got to put them somewhere, so why not keep them on the wheel?
     
    #47 mr88cet, Jul 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
  8. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    This happened the other day just a few miles from my sister's house. I'll let other people argue while I munch on some popcorn. :( But I'm wondering if autopilots move over.

    Screen Shot 2020-07-16 at 7.14.40 AM.jpg
     
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  9. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Two things about this don’t make sense:

    First, this isn’t a matter of “moving over,” which (if that law is the same as the Texas law) means leaving a clear lane between emergency vehicles parked at the side of the road. In this case, the Tesla not only didn’t leave an additional, empty lane between the emergency vehicles and its path, but it plowed into them. It moved to the left, not to the right!

    Second, Tesla AutoPilot is historically very good at avoiding stopped vehicles ahead of it. I therefore suspect he’s ... “engaging in wishful thinking” (lying) ... about it being on AutoPilot. Either way though, he’s still “pilot in command”; he is still absolutely responsible for the driving of the car, regardless of how much he delegated to automation.

    Nevertheless, you’re asking a good question: Do these systems know to “move over”?
     
    #49 mr88cet, Jul 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2020
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  10. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Yeah, that's really the main point. Use the tools you have, but don't trust your life to them. Moving over is something that also needs consideration and I have no idea if the software engineers did that.
     
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  11. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    Your life and others’...
     
  12. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Which is why you only use approved software on public roads.

    OpenPilot is not legal on public roads.
     
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