1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Featured 1 in 5 Californians have swapped their EV for a gas car — and this is to blame

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by jerrymildred, May 5, 2021.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,590
    11,212
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    For a non-Tesla to get access to Superchargers in a major way would require the model's company to buy in. At which point, they will have to make such an adapter, or use Tesla's system for all charging, or have both outlets on the car. Considering no one has gotten Supercharger access in a large commercial way yet, it will likely be the middle one as the Tesla to CCS adapter will be available in the here before then.

    Supercharger rates are below retail. They aren't going to let any car use them without buying in first.
     
  2. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    5,850
    4,017
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Supercharger rates are below CCS rates but about double retail electricity rates.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,066
    15,372
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    As a TSLA stockholder, fine after the owners or manufactures pay their fair share of capital and operating cost like I did when I bought my Model 3. I’d be OK with a fixed access fee of $2,500 to $5,000.

    No freeloaders with slower than Model 3 charge rates, 170 kW unless they pay for blocking the charging spot, 170/50 ~= 3x higher rate.

    IMHO, a fair price covering capital and operating cost. Would you pay?

    Ask your EV maker to do the engineering and Tesla business details. Pay fair and I have no problem with another Tesla revenue stream. Just freeloaders need not apply.

    Bob Wilson
     
  4. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    5,850
    4,017
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Since you don't seem capable of answering the question, I'll do it - there will have to be an adapter from Tesla to CCS.
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,066
    15,372
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Since you are unable to understand my answer, we share similar opinions of each other. We’ll just have to leave you frustrated, again.

    Bob Wilson
     
    austingreen, hill and Trollbait like this.
  6. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    5,850
    4,017
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Just to remind you, this was the question you forgot to answer:

    >> It will be one direction only, CCS-1 to Tesla. -- Bob Wilson
    >Then how will Tesla superchargers be used for non Tesla cars?
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,590
    11,212
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Tesla isn't going to run Superchargers at a loss. The fees need to cover upkeep and expansion. It was obvious I was referring to DC charging retail.

    I basically answered this in the rest of my post.

    There doesn't need to be an adapter. At least not from Tesla. The only known company using Superchargers is Aptera. They have three, maybe four, prototypes, and the one spotted charging at a Supercharger was using Tesla's plug. If someone was to take Tesla's offer to join the Supercharger network, it would be on a brand or model basis, not per individual car. The easiest thing to do would be to just use Tesla's charging standard for all levels of charging, as a j1772 adapter can be supplied with the car, and CCS adapters already exist in Europe and South Korea.

    Perhaps someone will approach Tesla about providing individual car access in the future. It will likely be on them to develop that Tesla to CCS adapter. The prospect is unlikely though. Tesla will charger such individuals higher rates, or ask for a large one time fee like @bwilson4web said. With the rate these networks are growing, the number of people that actually need access to both is small, and will shrink over time.
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,600
    8,034
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Not when you consider they are running on high "demand fees", where for example Calif (& its varying districts) charges BIG bucks - once a commercial entity pulls a threshold for any length of time, 50kw or more for example in our area - then their utiliry charges them 3 figures/month not even counting any further draw - just for the privilege of potentially pulling a whole lot more. Big Xformers ain't cheep.

    Otherwise CCS users will have to use their own network.
    .
     
    iplug likes this.
  9. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    5,850
    4,017
    0
    Location:
    Westminster, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I know - one thing an H2 station would avoid is demand charges.

    Their cost for electricity should be less than residential.

    A while back, my home rate was 11 cents per kWh, no demand charges. At work, we paid a big demand charge but paid 5.5 cents per kWh for the electricity.
     
  10. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    6,153
    4,144
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    Good thing! If H2 fuel was susceptible to demand charges it might be $30/kg rather than $15/kg:rolleyes:
     
    3PriusMike and hill like this.
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,464
    38,101
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Thread off-topic for about 3 pages? I know, status quo.
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,590
    11,212
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Too be fair, it did stay on topic for 4 pages.
     
    jerrymildred and Mendel Leisk like this.
  13. t_newt

    t_newt Active Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2018
    216
    240
    0
    Location:
    94087
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    You can see a Tesla socket on an Aptera at 2:55 in Aptera's video:


    It would be interesting if this makes it into their released production cars.
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  14. dubit

    dubit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    850
    538
    23
    Location:
    Indiana
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Lets hope that ugly looking thing never makes it into any kind of production.
     
  15. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,490
    14,095
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    No worries. I've gone off topic more than once myself. And I really started this just to see where it would go. I'm enjoying the conversations. ;)
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,590
    11,212
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    And there really isn't much to add to the original topic.
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  17. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,600
    8,034
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    We charge our PHEV's using our tesla high-power wall charger (HPWC) -
    20180826_120520-1-1.jpg

    using a J1772 adapter

    20181120_144717-1.jpg

    Owners have even converted HPWC to J plugs

    HPWCj.jpg

    Point being .... converting one protocol & plug to another is not the big deal if they are just running on 240v. Whether they talk to the supercharger network is an entirely different matter.
    .
     
    jerrymildred likes this.