$10 per gal gas....a cool article

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jun 7 2006, 10:57 PM) [snapback]267672[/snapback]</div>

Malorn, what is the cost of fuel in Europe and Japan ? I should tell you -- a litre is not the same unit of measure as a US gallon. Do you know how to click a web link ? If so, try here.

Or perhaps you view your truck dealership as 'the world' ?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Jun 8 2006, 08:14 AM) [snapback]267816[/snapback]</div>

$4.00 gas here would be a 33% jump in price. I would assume a 33% jump in price here would be reflected at the pumps worldwide. That would not bode well for the world economy.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jun 7 2006, 05:29 PM) [snapback]267575[/snapback]</div>

I'm not taking about one year. Demand for fuel is growing exponentially in India and China. And regardless of debates over worldwide reserves, the cost of extraction is getting steadily higher. We have the technology to take a lot of pressure off of fossil fuels by bringing alternatives on line. But the political clout of the oil companies, and the corruption of government, combine to prevent this, primarily through subsidies to fossil fuels that skew the playing field.

Alternative fuels do not need subsidies. They need a level playing field. Make people pay the real costs of fossil fuels and investment in alternatives would skyrocket.

The industrial revolution got a free ride with the discovery of oil. That free ride is coming to an end. And unless we move towards alternatives, $10 gas is going to seem cheap in the not-too-distant future.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jun 8 2006, 10:00 AM) [snapback]267913[/snapback]</div>

The skyrocketing of gas will force the development of alternatives, eventually lowering the price of gas. What would the price of gas in the US be today if the almost 2 million e85 vehicles on the road were all burning it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jun 8 2006, 11:03 AM) [snapback]267916[/snapback]</div>

Even more, minus whatever subsidies the lobbyists wrangle to hide the cost of ethanol.

So, malorn. Did you find your way to any websites that show that some of the countries in Europe are paying US$ 8/gallon ? That the average price AROUND THE WORLD outside of N. America and the oil exporting countries is *already* $US 4 - 5/gallon ?

Don't you want to stop spouting your republican prattle how the 'world is doomed' is gas prices go up ????

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Jun 8 2006, 01:34 PM) [snapback]268097[/snapback]</div>

The rest of the world has always paid more for gasoline than we here in North America have. woul dyou like to try and prove to me how the world's economy will not go into a tailspin if gas approaches $5.00/ gallon in N. America.

You are definitely one of the types I spoke of earlier...if you feel guilty about being an American why don't you just move somewhere else? I am sure there are many countries looking for another citizen with an attitude like you have.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jun 8 2006, 02:42 PM) [snapback]268100[/snapback]</div>

You haven't got it quite right. I am ashamed by americans like you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Jun 8 2006, 01:53 PM) [snapback]268109[/snapback]</div>

I think you are ashamed of all americans who don't believe in your far-left anti american agenda and all the bs that goes along with it.

 

I don't understand why right-wingers think liberals feel "guilty". What's there to feel guilty about?

As far as riding the bus, or the train, I will as soon as the route is convenient. And it will be when the infrastructure is expanded as ridership increases as fuel prices go up.

This "worldwide economic collapse" will be highly localized, to people that are dependent upon gas guzzling SUV's to make a living. Their world may come crashing down. Say, for example, if you are the owner of a GM dealership, and GM bet the farm (and your farm) on big SUV's, then "the world" (as you know it) may collapse.

The rest of the world may learn to adjust.

Nate

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Jun 8 2006, 02:45 PM) [snapback]268165[/snapback]</div>

Great line of thinking Nate. $10.00 gasoline won't have much effect on the world's economy at all. Only on GM as they make giant SUV's. What do you do for a living Nate, I am curious.

 

I wish we had the same system like what they have for the DC Metro here in El Paso. I might even go out more often.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Jun 8 2006, 05:45 AM) [snapback]267794[/snapback]</div>

Want to take a closer look? Most of my travel time is spent on a bicycle. Most of my miles are done in an EV that is fueled by solar panels. And thanks for not noticing. Now. What are YOU doing about it? Or is it only up to those nasty liberals to act?

Right! But we aren't being given those enabling options. You can buy basically one kind of car in CA: Gasoline. One reason that alternatives aren't offered is because the consumers aren't demanding the option of not burning gasoline. The more expensive gas gets, the more demand for alternatives increases. I hear it every day.

No easy answer, of course. But if more money to our governenment means less money for the governemnts that mean us harm... I'm pretty much for it! I worry far more about the 100's of Billions of $ that we ship out of this country for our oil. Even if our government just burns the extra money, I'd rather it stayed here where it least it doesn't kill us as fast.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jun 8 2006, 02:56 PM) [snapback]268115[/snapback]</div>

If you were not so malornic, it would be comical.

Ask some Europeans (however many you can contact) what they think of your proposition that gluttony in America is good for them. Or that cheap fossil fuels in the US is good for European economies; that $8 fuel in Germany is ok for Germany, but would be a world disaster if it came to the US.

Let me guess: all Europeans are liberals.

I know your education is limited to some silly business admin hooey. I really think you should ask for a refund.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jun 7 2006, 07:57 PM) [snapback]267672[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jun 8 2006, 08:03 AM) [snapback]267916[/snapback]</div>

Eric is doing a fine job of this debate but I wanted to add in as well.

Do you really think there are 2 million E85 vehicles using E85?? I had a flex fuel truck...only had gas in it as there is no alternative stations close to home.
The world market is much larger than the US but this view that the US is "ALL" is common in the conservative field. Europeans and other countries with higher gas prices have learned through necessitiy to be more economic with their use. Even though their demand is lower than ours, they pay more. How does supply and demand work there?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Jun 8 2006, 03:16 PM) [snapback]268192[/snapback]</div>

Gosh, why would I care what Europeans think about American fossil fuel burning? I know the european countries are all in compliance with the Kyoto Treaty they all cried about when the US did not sign. I bet you were deeply offended the US did not sign weren't you. Ahhh! yet another reason to feel guilty.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EmptyG @ Jun 7 2006, 06:42 PM) [snapback]267526[/snapback]</div>

Well, yeah, but it's also unrealistic because it doesn't take politics in to account. You'd get all kinds of characters getting exemptions for themselves for every ridiculous thing they could think of. The law of unintended consequences will turn it in to a giant boondoggle that turns the intent in to a mere ghost of its original form. It's a nice idea in a way but pure fantasy. Raise the taxes on gasoline rather than the price and it might work but getting those taxes raised would be a very high hurdle to get over.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clarkeb @ Jun 7 2006, 04:52 PM) [snapback]267555[/snapback]</div>

Well to be fair their taxes are MUCH greater than ours for gasoline, and they tend to have a much better public transit system as well (which gets funded by this money IIRC).

To give an example, take San Francisco California right now.
Total taxes on gasoline (both state/local & feds) = $.504 cents per gallon
Cost of gallon of gas = $3.20 (approx.)
percentage of tax 15.75% tax
Cost of gasoline per gallon sans taxes $2.69/gal

London England
Cost of gallon of gas (coverted to US dollars & gallons) = $6.50 (approx.)
percentage of tax 75% (no breakdown available)
Cost of gasoline per gallon sans taxes $1.625/gallon

So yeah, Europe pays way more per gallon, but the money goes some place worthwild, and I think that's what the author was hinting at, not giving the money to oil companies but taxing the hell out of it to pay off other programs. Not that I agree with the author's vision

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jun 8 2006, 01:52 PM) [snapback]268172[/snapback]</div>

Yes, the worldwide economy will suffer. But most of us will adjust and be okay. The catastrophes of which you speak will affect some industries and local economies more than others.

You speak of doom and gloom for the planet. I for one am much more optimistic about human beings and their ability to innovate and adapt. It's the ones who don't innovate, don't adapt that stand the worst chance of being hardest hit.

I design high speed internet access equipment, since you asked. I used to be a mechanic at a dealership in Michigan, but all that means is I know more about cars than the average guy. I don't work for Toyota.

The way I see it, high speed net access is a fuel saver. Online banking saves trips to the local branch and saves paper. Online shopping saves trips down to the store just to look at stuff. Online airline tickets saves trips to the airport. Online music saves trips to the store for CD's, plus the CD itself. Blockbuster online saves trips to Blockbuster. Online autopay even saves the mail load! Online collaboration saves trips to the office.

The way I see it, the greater the cost of fuel, the more ways people will want to save money by staying home. And affordable high speed internet access is one of them.

Nate

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Jun 8 2006, 03:39 PM) [snapback]268215[/snapback]</div>

How do you think the high-speed internet industry would fare with $10 gasoline? How much less banking, flying, movie rental, online shopping and purchasing would be done if gas was $10/gallon. The economy would stop relative to where it has been the first 5 months of 2006. Gasp, what if you lost your job? along with millions of others?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Jun 8 2006, 01:39 PM) [snapback]268215[/snapback]</div>

Shipping costs for items would go up but I think the folks who use internet are more into ease than gas saving when they are using it.

I believe that the individual making the gas guzzler is more likely to lose a job before the techie though. It will be interesting to see how GM survives a year of subsidizing their vehicles.