$100 oil is now here

time to makea electric car

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hycamguy07 @ Nov 7 2007, 09:03 AM) [snapback]536186[/snapback]</div>

It is only £1.00 a liter. At today's exchange rate it works out to $2.10 per liter or $7.98 per U.S. gallon.

BBC News

 

Sure, Detroit, keep on lobbying the crap out of DC so that you crank out gas guzzlers indefinitely. The only problem with that is that you can't lobby the car buyer when the price of gasoline keeps going up. No wonder Detroit can't even give away it's SUVs and pickup trucks.

 

Got my first heating oil delivery today. Price was $3.099, and it's only gonna get worse. Cost $376 for 121 gallons. Good thing I have a small house.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Nov 7 2007, 10:19 AM) [snapback]536232[/snapback]</div>

No, but they will lobby Congress to bail them out. The feds will give GM and the others money to stay in operation, building SUVs, which will then be sold at taxpayer-subsidized prices. The price of gas is already subsidized by taxpayer dollars, so it's a small step to increase the subsidy and keep the price down until they bankrupt the country subsidizing gas so that Americans can burn it all. Politicians couldn't give a rat's a$$, as long as they stay in power.

 

Oops. Duplicate post somehow.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hycamguy07 @ Nov 7 2007, 09:03 AM) [snapback]536186[/snapback]</div>

Do you think a barrel of oil costs more in Britain?

Oil is sold on the world market. The reason gasoline is cheaper in the US is because we don't have as many taxes on it. Right now, we have enough tax that the government "makes" more money on each gallon of gasoline than the oil companies do. But its still not as much as the Brits are raking in by over-taxing their people.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Nov 8 2007, 12:36 AM) [snapback]536571[/snapback]</div>

And the Brits have bus and rail lines plus much smaller, more densely populated cities. When I visited customers in Oxford, I never had to rent a car. I would fly into Heathrow, take a 1 hr bus ride to the Oxford city center were my hotel was located, and then take a cab the 5 or so mile to the customers factory. I could get from Frankfurt to Prague on a train that only took 7 hours and cost about $80.

This is due to that "over-taxing". Europe and Asia are in a much better position for peak oil specifically because they are not completely dependent on the car for 99% of their transportation. This is specifically because they tax gasoline at a rate that people are forced to consume less.

Think about it, how will the typical person get from their suburban or exurban house to work without a car, once gas is $10 to $15 per gallon? How will the US build public transportation systems to efficiently transport people spread thinly through the suburbs?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Nov 7 2007, 09:14 PM) [snapback]536585[/snapback]</div>

That's always been my point.

WHO's Health Care Rankings U.S. #37

Infant Mortality Rate

See where the U.S. ranks compared to places like Sweden?

We can look at per capita income as well.

Maybe that is why some EU nations are pushing to rid ourselves of the antiquated GDP and look into using GPI (Genuine Progress Indicator) instead.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimBikes @ Nov 8 2007, 01:47 AM) [snapback]536594[/snapback]</div>

OK so the white collar workers work from home. What about the blue collar workers? You know the assembly workers, plumbers, electricians, etc. What about the retail people? What about the service people? Do you get a virtual haircut? So do the children telecommute school too with virtual classrooms and virtual gym class? How do you get your food from the grocery store? What if you want to go to a restaurant?

The answer isn't connecting a spread out population without human interaction, it is bringing people together. It is building in city centers instead of adding another suburb. It is in building mixed use communities where residential, retail, industry, and recreation intertwine. It is ending our century old fascination with cars and lawns.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Nov 7 2007, 10:02 PM) [snapback]536604[/snapback]</div>

*cheers*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(statultra @ Nov 7 2007, 01:58 PM) [snapback]536217[/snapback]</div>

Again when refering to EV vehicles, where are you getting your power from?

The electric co. powerplant? that is correct.!

My point is the power is coming from somewhere, and that some where may be dirty by burning oil ,coal, ect.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ Nov 7 2007, 12:56 PM) [snapback]536215[/snapback]</div>

I think its pretty funny how everyone desperately wants to hold on to the notion that everything is ok, because its just a smidge better than the worst its ever been

Rob

 

Power plants are still far more efficient than ICE cars (even the old crappy ones) and the US generates a very small percentage of power with oil. Furthermore, electricity can be generated in many, many ways. Gasoline (or diesel) can only be made with oil (granted, via pyrolysis you can make that oil, but there are far fewer ways to make oil than electricity). Electric cars give us many, many more options which has the added benefit of insulating consumers from price shocks of a specific source.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hycamguy07 @ Nov 8 2007, 01:25 PM) [snapback]536792[/snapback]</div>

This paper is a pretty good summary of the case for plugins (PHEVs and BEVs). Based on a survey of 40+ related studies, it shows significant reduction in most pollutants and overall energy usage (not to mention a nearly complete shift from imported to domestic fuel sources) even using todays power plants. On top of that there is a clear path to continued improvement and even 0 fuel consumption/pollution should we chose. There is no such equivalent path certainly for fossil fuels, or realistically even for Hydrogen (which is currently as dirty to dirtier than gasoline).

http://www.pluginamerica.org/images/EmissionsSummary.pdf

Rob

 

EV's powered by Coal/Natural Gas/Oil are signifiantly more efficient than hybrids.

Solar, wind, hydro, and nuclear are all available for EV's as well.

Nate

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(statultra @ Nov 7 2007, 10:58 AM) [snapback]536217[/snapback]</div>

That time was several years back. Now it is well PAST time, I'm afraid. Figuring in the turnover rate of automobiles, we're somewhat screwed. Or, more accurately and personally - we've somewhat screwed OURSELVES.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hycamguy07 @ Nov 8 2007, 11:25 AM) [snapback]536792[/snapback]</div>

The others covered it quite well. And it has come up more times than I can count. And in fact YOU have brought it up several times. Have you heard the responses? Electricity is the ultimate flex fuel. It does NOT have to be made by burning something, though it can be. Yes, it can be made in terrible ways - coal, nuclear, etc. The trick is to figure out how to do it right, and follow through. The other trick is to stop dissing it, and realize how bad we're screwing up the planet, our economy and security by consuming OIL while we propagate the fear of "dirty electricity."

I understand your point that electricity MAY be dirty. Yet it also might just as well be *CLEAN* and is almost always *domestic*.

 

Forget electric cars for the time being - the battery and charging technology just isn't there yet to satisfy most people - after all, they don't want to be limited to a 200-400 mile range, even if that is 99% of their driving.

Instead, switch to PHEV's - give me 35 miles on a charge, and in my normal week i won't use any gas at all, yet still have the ability to use gas if i'm heading up north for a weekend... If every car out there could get just 35 miles on a single charge without using any gas, I'd bet our gasoline usage would be 1/4 what it is now. It may not be a total win (as we'd still be using gas), but it'd be good enough for me for right now.