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Featured 100% Tariff on Chinese EV's in the USA.

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Isaac Zachary, May 15, 2024.

  1. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    Well, I'm seeing a lot of these rich towns run out of workers. Even here where I live, I've seen the majority of restaurants close up, in spite that this town lives off of turism. But when it gets to the point that living conditions are too terrible and you can't afford anything better, even though you make a lot less money in, say, Mexico, it makes more sense to move somewhere like that.

    This is something I often think about for myself and my family. There's no way I'll ever be able to afford a house here. I've worked here for just about 20 years, but still make a median wage of around $50k, and homes start at $500,000 and up. Rents just keep going up too, and the conditions of those rentals keeps going down. These investment companies have no interest in improving their properties because right now they can charge $2,000 per month regarless if the appartment is nice and pretty or it's a basement with mold growing on the walls that the last tenants left dog feces on the floor. People don't make enough to afford a $2,100 appartment, they'll rent the dump that's $100 less, and as a result there's no financial reason to improve properties. So what do people do? They move out, then the town has no workers, and then the rich who own the multi million dollar homes have no place to go eat out, shop or teachers to teach their kids or police or firefighters to take care of their town and things like that. I think that's how the elderly ruling class won't be able to sustain this for much longer.

    Maybe I should move my family to China and start working in a LFP plant.

     
  2. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    Many Americans and immigrants have a much different story to tell:

     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    It’s good to have a member of the working poor here, there isn’t much representation on Prius chat.
    It’s one of the problems the democrats have been unable to fix, or unable to.
    Someone once said, “the poor you will always have with you”, and so far, they’ve been right
     
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  4. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    I think that if a person is a good person and does good things, then overall he has a better chance at life. But that doesn't mean that all good people are well off financially, nor does it mean that all bad people are poor. I do agree that it doesn't help to victimize oneself as if not attaining something like the American dream is some sort of failure in life. How many people before the 20th century had two cars, air conditioning and an iPhone?

    "I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need."

    "For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content."

    On the one hand, while "the love of money" is something one not "covet after" because, as I've seen time and time again, people who are willing to sacrfice time with their family for, say, two full-time jobs usually end up divorced and with children that hate them, or "pierced themselves through with many sorrows" so to speak.

    But on the other, there's nothing wrong with "having compassion" on those who are struggling to make ends meet or for those suffering for some other reason. There's no need to throw all the blame on them, for "judge not" and "condemn not." The reality is most things that happen, both good and bad, are a result of the decisions of many people as well as unforseen circumstances. You can't tell me that what I get paid at my job is entirely my fault, nor is it entirely my boss's fault, for "the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all."
     
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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    would you say your economic situation is better under biden, the same, or worse?
     
  6. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    Compared to?
    Trump?

    I have no real idea, and don't understand politics at all. All I know is that he's decided put steep tariffs on Chinese EV's. For some reason I feel that Trump probably would have done the same thing. For better or worse, it is what it is.
     
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  7. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Would've been nice if they could have done the tariffs only on EVs that actually compete with American EVs instead of a full blanket. They could've gotten close with a simplistic rule like "tariffs only on 1500kg or greater curb weight."

    That would protect just about every American manufacturer for every model right there, while leaving enough headroom to get some useful small cars in from abroad.
     
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  8. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    Tesla Killer Lands In Europe: BYD's Seagull EV Poised To Disrupt With Sub-$21K Price Tag Even After Tough Tariffs (msn.com)

    "BYD, which overtook Elon Musk‘s Tesla, Inc. (NASDAQ:TSLA) in the last quarter of 2023 to become the largest global EV manufacturer, is planning to introduce its Seagull hatchback in Europe next year. The vehicle, priced under $10,000, is expected to be sold for less than €20,000 ($21,500), even after tariffs and modifications to meet European standards, reported Bloomberg."

    "We don't think that protectionism will give us a long-term way out of this competition."

    All things being equal and assuming European and US standards are similar
    $1 Euro = 1.08 Dollars US.
    Without any tariffs this would cost $10,800 in US.
    With 100% tariff it would cost $21,600 in US.
    Article states the vehicle will actually cost less than these stated figures.
     
    #28 John321, May 22, 2024
    Last edited: May 22, 2024
  9. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Active Member

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    Maybe 2,000kg or heavier, otherwise you only get vehicles with a very short range between charges. The MG4 EV for instance, a range of 260 miles and weighs 1645kg, or 330 miles for the long range model @ 1750kg

    T1 Terry
     
  10. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    But that could threaten the Tesla 3.

    Of course it wouldn't really be a threat to the model 3 given the extra performance and luxury finishes in the Tesla, but that won't keep the shareholders from calling their congresscritters.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    I don’t think this tariff will affect the working poor, they really shouldn’t be driving ev’s
     
  12. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Wouldn't be an issue if any of the US manufacturers actually bothered to make cars to suit median incomes.
     
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  13. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    The median individual wage is what, $50,000/year? And the household median wage is, $70,000/year or there abouts?

    I make $50,000/year. That limits my spending possibilities like so:
    I can afford up to a $120,000 home. (Cheapest home in my area is about $400,000, and it's an oddball because the next one is $500,000)
    If I follow the 20/4/10 rule, with current insurance pricing, I can afford a $5,000 car. ($50k / 12 = $4,167 / 10 = $417 / month - $150/mo fuel and $150/mo insurance = $117/mo for car payments on a four year loan and maintenance and repairs.)

    If I move somewhere I can make the same amount of money but homes are cheaper and car insurance is cheaper and perhaps a place where I can drive fewer miles, I could afford a home and a more expensive car.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    'cars' in general are a whole different topic. i agree that it would be nice tohave less expensive vehicles available.
    whether the chinese vehicles are doing that profitably is up for debate.
    americans can make their collective wills known by buying the smallest cars available and letting the land yachts sit on the lots, instead of vice versa.
     
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  15. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    If I were to buy a new car right now, I'd buy a Nissan Versa.

    However, this is the last year for the Nissan Versa and other similar vehicles like the Mitsubishi Mirage. The smallest cars available are becoming land yachts. GM's smallest and cheapest vehicle is the new bigger Chevy Trax crossover. The cheapest Ford is the Ford Maverick pickup truck. The cheapest Dodge is the Hornet which is also a crossover.

    Mind you that a lot of these are cheaper than, say, a Toyota Corolla (the Yaris was also killed off in the USA). And also mind you that after the death of the Nissan Versa, all of the cheapest cars in the USA will be more than $20,000, which historically if you adjust for inflation there has usually been, if not allways been, econo cars priced below $20,000 (again, even when adjusting for inflation to 2024).
     
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  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    sometimes it's just economics. a lot of people think making a small car is as profitable as a big car. that may not be the case.
     
  17. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    The idea of Chinese EVs serving this market only came up because no automaker is serving a significant segment of it with anything at all.

    Don't get hung up on the size- it's the price. The American market is absolutely starving for inexpensive cars. Inexpensive cars wind up small for lots of organic reasons.

    I'm certain they can be made profitably. Equally certain that no manufacturer will go for it because they can (or at least believe they can) get identical profits from lower volume of more expensive units.

    The shareholders will not let them take the risk of scale to address that market if there's any other way to make the profit.

    And that's not illegal or anything, they can't directly get in trouble for doing this.

    But it's past time to recognize that even though Ford, GM & Stellantis are not playing for team China, they are also not playing for team most-of-America.
     
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  18. Isaac Zachary

    Isaac Zachary Senior Member

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    What mostly makes a car proffitable is the mass quantity that can be produced and sold, as well as the price point. In other words, if they sell only a few of them they need to be expensive to be proffitable. But if they sell a lot of them they can be cheaper and still be proffitable. The best of both worlds is when a manufacturer can both sell a lot of them at higher prices. That's what they do with crossovers. They look bigger, even when they aren't actually bigger, so they can sell them for more since people think they're getting more car. Once people have been effectively upsold on crossovers then all manufacturers need to do to keep their proffits high is to kill off the cheaper cars that aren't as proffitable.
     
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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I don't see this action as being any different than state dealer associations lobbying to keep Tesla out.

    Guess this means we can't hope for an interim Voltec PHEV from China anymore.
     
  20. RandyPete

    RandyPete Member

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    Whooa ! Civil discussion of explosive topics. Unheard of elesewhere.
     
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