12-year-old boy undergoes sex change...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tomdeimos @ Feb 6 2007, 07:54 PM) [snapback]386430[/snapback]</div>

I think that it's becoming more and more accepted that one's gender identity resides in the brain; simply looking at one's genitals is an indicator of *sex* but not of *gender.*

And it's our *gender* which tells us if we are male or female.

It's funny; those "It's a boy!/It's a girl!" balloons, etc. which we always see when there's a birth...really, the only thing that the parents are celebrating is the child's sex.

The gender remains unknown. We can make assumptions, but not with complete certainty.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jmann @ Feb 6 2007, 07:58 PM) [snapback]386433[/snapback]</div>

I disagree. Gender issues are primarily developmental in nature, in my opinion...and one's gender is set by the time one emerges from the womb. The only thing the world does to trans individuals is make them feel shamed and guilty and isolated for being who they are.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Feb 6 2007, 09:09 PM) [snapback]386403[/snapback]</div>

...and this is precisely why your contingency is so easy to silence. You're easily "literarily bludgeoned" into this very corner. It's why a lot of the more "hard left" folks have left, they get frustrated too easily, and stop posting in FHOP. h34r:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Feb 6 2007, 08:09 PM) [snapback]386440[/snapback]</div>

So, what is the alternative? Be drawn into an increasingly divisive debate with no real resolution?

I don't think that asking for sensitivity and respect is unreasonable.

When these qualities evaporate is when I (hard left or not, I'm actually not sure about where I stand on some traditionally liberal issues) no longer feel the need to continue the discussion.

So, if devolving into insensitivity and disrespect is indeed the tactic of choice used to silence the 'left'...well, I don't know if that's something I would be proud of.

 

Squid, squid, squid (shaking my head)...are you saying it's a good thing when people are dissed? Many otherwise intelligent conversations here have been cut short, in no small part by the bullying tactics you're so fond of. And you're proud of it? I'm sure you'll eventually reach the average maturity level here, but chances are good you won't live to be 162. Some of us - not you - really appreciate the supportive community here and have made some genuine friends. You're missing out.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Feb 6 2007, 10:18 PM) [snapback]386449[/snapback]</div>

You are letting me (and like-minded folks) control your voice.

See, that's what we've all sort of been conditioned to think. That we must be "nice", "respectful", and "not cause any waves", and that "voilence" doesn't solve anything. If you were at the top of the pile, wouldn't you want the maggots below thinking just that from day 1?

Pride has nothing to do with it, in the end, your mouth remains shut, and whatever opposing agenda gets the lime-light, and you get kicked back into the faceless, silent, and obedient crowd.

Just think of how many folks left FHOP because they got soo frustrated, bored, or simply, too tired to argue, they have been effectively silenced... It is soooooo very easy to silence people these days, and ironically, with little to no violence... h34r:



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hyo silver @ Feb 6 2007, 10:25 PM) [snapback]386457[/snapback]</div>

Sure. Isn't it interesting how powerful mere text on a message board can be? Think of this sort of thing on a much larger scale... I can almost say, I could probably push whatever agenda I wanted upon the public, as long as I have a "well functioning" propaganda organ, I can literally, silence any opposition... h34r:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Feb 6 2007, 08:34 PM) [snapback]386461[/snapback]</div>

Mr. Squid, you're arguing that 'might makes right'...while I'm asking, 'how can anyone who practices tactics like these respect themselves?' (or, for that matter, how can *I* respect them?)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Feb 6 2007, 09:34 PM) [snapback]386461[/snapback]</div>

That's just it, Squid, you don't seem to have a well functioning organ.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Feb 6 2007, 10:49 PM) [snapback]386474[/snapback]</div>

Oh, since when is "written might" a bad thing? Pen is mightier than the sword and all that good stuff... As for "respect"... *sigh*/shakes head* a thoroughly worthless concept. You obviously place some sort of arbitrary artificial weight on it, I don't, and whether or not you choose to respect, well, that's YOUR issue...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Feb 6 2007, 09:00 PM) [snapback]386483[/snapback]</div>

Honestly, I'm speechless...which (I presume) is the idea...?

I'm sorry that you feel that respect is worthless.

You're in the right absolutely. And I'm wrong.

Does this make you feel better?

You won!

It doesn't matter how, but you did it.

You bludgeoned me into submission, strangled me with my own entrails, and now are urinating on my dead body.

I'll bet winning in this manner feels GOOD!!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Feb 6 2007, 07:26 PM) [snapback]386379[/snapback]</div>

I think one has to be careful judging one's sexuality by their behavior when they're young. My nephew always wanted to play w/ girl things and even play dress up w/ girl's clothes. He's now 12 and notwithstanding his sensitivity, he's masculine. He's into sports and appears to be heterosexual. He has an older sister that he absolutely adores and I think when he was young, he was trying to emulate (or fit in) w/ her. My sister had been pondering if he was gay and now we're pretty sure he's not.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Feb 6 2007, 10:00 PM) [snapback]386483[/snapback]</div>

This is curious. Usually mistreatment arises out of disrespect. If you mistreat different aspects of your life, it's not going to get you too far. As an example, try going one week disrespecting your employer. And, what about yourself, Squid, do you respect yourself?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Feb 7 2007, 06:20 PM) [snapback]386653[/snapback]</div>

Just 'cause he's 'heterosexual' doesn't mean that he's not transgendered.

Being transgendered and being homosexual are two *completely* different things.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Feb 7 2007, 06:34 PM) [snapback]386669[/snapback]</div>

I agree. And thank you for putting it so succinctly. I was unable to articulate this idea, and so found myself unable to express why the concept of respect is so important to me.

It is, indeed, lots easier to mistreat/abuse/segregate/marginalize those whom one disrespects.

 

I'm aware of the differences. I'm just making a point that just because a child has certain expressions, it doesn't mean they'll carry this through to their adult life. They may just be temporarily affected by something in their environment.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Feb 7 2007, 07:44 PM) [snapback]386719[/snapback]</div>

Thank you, understood.

In the case of gender dysphoria, it's extremely difficult because, as things stand currently, it's up to the person who's feeling these feelings to determine how 'severe' (for lack of a better word) they are, create a 'treatment plan' for themselves, implement it, then determine afterwards if it was a success or not.

Not to mention, (as they get a little older) pay for the whole thing themselves while simultaneously losing most of their earning power, as well as their family and friends.

And, as you've suggested, the pace of development during the earlier stages of life is so rapid that change seems to happen overnight.

It seems like a situation which could potentially harbor a tremendous amount of shame and disillusionment, unless handled very gently indeed.

 

Yep, I'm all too aware. My sister's husband didn't outwardly handle it poorly, but he did suggest that he had problems with it. I'm quite sure that if the behavior persisted, the father would've made clear his problems with it. Any child, or adult for that matter, is probably shouldering enough ill feelings based on the pressure of society without bearing the burden of an unaccepting parent.

 

Unless a adult film producer approaches them, and offers them a deal to work in the adult film industry for a decent salary...


And again just because some one is feminine at a younger age or likes to play dress up, doesnt mean they will stay that way.. <_<

I was listening to a guy that is a freind of a freind, he was talking with a lisp He sounded like this: Heyy sso whatsss going onn, how have you beeen OMG I just got married to thissss fine little ssssweety of a woman shessss so niccce....... :blink:

We all thought he was FLAMING until we saw the wedding pictures, then just realised he sounded flamboyant but was straight as an arrow and had no issues with his man hood.... :mellow:




As for this topic, make the kid wait till he/shes 18 -21 before giving it surgery that can not be reversed... Just to make sure its what is really wanted. and let it go from there...... 12 is too young to know what they want for the rest of their life... anyone who says other wise is just as foolish.

Its one thing to do something at birth, if its needed for medical reasons its another to do it in their pre-teens just because they want to..

I think there could be reprocushions if the other school mates found out he had a sex change (It wouldnt be oh cool bill got changed into a girl) I can assure you of that.. :huh:

 

Did you know that you can check to see if you're gay or not, just by measuring your index finger against your ring finger?

It's true! Try it!

---------------------------

As for the rest of your idiotic drivel, how about shoving it up your piehole? Seriously, dude, you come across as such an immature imbicile that it's not even funny anymore.

And if this gets me banned, so be it. Someone has to say it and it's going to be me.

Does it feel good? Does it? Do you feel like a man now? A big, tough, in-charge man who knows how to treat the ladies? Ugh, you've just proven every point I've been trying (unsuccessfully, apparently) to get across here on PC. Nice going.

To everyone else here: my apologies for this outburst.

To Mr. PriusGuy: You're a jerk.

 

Its so easy for us to comment on this and other similar topics, How ever put your self in the parents shoes.

Hypotheticly speaking:

Your sitting there doing what you do to relax after a long day at work, and your son or daughter comes in and announces they want a sex change because they are not happy being who they are, or they tell you they are gay!

I will set the age limitation between 9 & 17.

What pops into your mind, please try and answer truthfully:

1st thought?

2nd thought?

3rd thought?

4th thought?

What do you say to them after the shock has worn off?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Feb 7 2007, 08:47 PM) [snapback]386752[/snapback]</div>

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ Feb 7 2007, 10:09 PM) [snapback]386757[/snapback]</div>

Why do you capitalize the word "gay" like it's so horrible? I can see how as a parent, this would be an upsetting delivery from your child but not because something is wrong with them. Rather my concerns would be limited to that which the public will perceive/treat them. You have just confirmed my worst fears.

Every single person on this planet has a uniqueness that only they own. If we start singling people out for their differences, no two people would be tolerant of one another.