15 year cost of ownership (Cash buyers)

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Troy Heagy, Nov 19, 2013.

  1. Troy Heagy

    Troy Heagy Member

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    I compiled this data from cars,com, listing the cost if you paid cash (therefore no loans, interest, etc), and you intend to keep the car for its full lifespan (or until junked). I doubt these are accurate since even Toyota says "The battery in a Prius will last the life of the car (180,000 miles)." Obviously a worn-out battery would add another $3000 maintenance cost, but I did not include that for this 15 year calculation. Ditto with the other EVs/hybrids. (For example the Leaf would eventually need a new $10,000 battery.)

    15 year cost (225,000 miles).
    Pricetag + Maintenance + Fuel

    $50,500 Leaf (EV)
    $57,900 Volt (EV with range extension)
    $59,900 Prius C (hybrid)

    $61,100 Prius Plugin (EV with range extension)
    $63,500 Insight (hybrid)
    $65,800 Civic (hybrid)

    $66,700 Versa
    $67,400 Fiesta
    $70,300 Fusion (hybrid)

    $71,000 Jetta
    $72,200 Prius (hybrid)
    $72,600 Yaris

    $76,900 Jetta (diesel)
    $77,100 Cruze
    $82,300 Cruze (diesel)
     
  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Good work. Give us a few details of your calcs.
    • Presumably you are taking $7500 Federal credit for Volt /Leaf $2500 for PiP.
    • Give us gasoline price assumption; electric price assumption
    • The one thing looks funny is Prius c saving $12000 over Prius
    • The PiP does really well here, the only debit being less Federal Credits (assuming that is factored in)
     
  3. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    I like it. For me I never kept a car 15 years, 10 was the longest. I also pay loan interest. It does bring to light the value of buy and hold and gas efficient cars. Thank You for posting.
     
  4. Troy Heagy

    Troy Heagy Member

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    (1) Yes tax credit was subtracted off the initial purchase price for EVs and plugins
    (2) The fuel cost was calculated by Cars.com with a small increase for each year (inlflation). They calculated most cars at ~$1500 a year and 15,000 miles commute

    (3) (a) Prius C is $6000 cheaper right from the start
    (3) (b) The C also included lower maintenance costs. I have no idea why.

    (4) All the plugins did well, because they run on electricity which has no road tax. Plus more efficient (~100 MPGe versus 50 MPGg). One thing not accounted for is the battery replacement cost which will likely add ~10,000 to the cost of the Plugin cars. (Lithium is not cheap.)
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  6. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    I question the credibility of cars dot com simply for the fact they bought greenhybrid dot com, then made it into a greenwashing site by running off the green drivers in favor of leadfooted drivers wanting to atone for their gas guzzling by having a hybrid label on their vehicle...greenhybrid is almost dead from that attempt to cater to a mainstream audience. Many other automotive zines are into performance over economy and have a distinct bias.

    The OP is working very hard to put hybrids and EVs in the most unfavorable light possible, but what about comparing them to an:
    • Cadilliac Escalade
    • Ford F-150
    • Chevy Suburban
    • Dodge Charger
    • BMW 318i
    Of course most of these drivers don't care about the amount of money they threw away for the total life of the vehicle, yet they are throwing away a lot more money than hybrid/EV drivers allegedly are. Fact is cars are an expense - not an investment and most drivers are wasting more money on their wheels than Prius drivers and the like.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, i think we're all well aware of the op's trollish agenda.
     
  8. Tony D

    Tony D Active Member

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    Howmany people keep their cars for 10 years, never mind 15!

    (await barrage of answers! Lol)
     
  9. Troy Heagy

    Troy Heagy Member

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    Apparently nobody reads my signature... I own two hybrids (and saving cash to get a Tesla in late 2014 or early 2015). I am not anti-EV/hybrid but pro-"make an informed decision before you throw-down half a year's pay" buying one of them.
    Yes those people are wasting money too.
    Luxury cars are pretty much a ripoff.... as soon as you drive one off the lot, and it becomes a used car, it's lost ~10,000 dollars of its value.
     
  10. Troy Heagy

    Troy Heagy Member

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    The data was double-checked with Emunds.com and the dollar amounts were very similar.

    15 years or 125,000 miles is overstating a car's lifespan? Hardly.

    1987 Plymouth == 25 years when engine died
    1990 Dodge == 17 years (and 360,000 miles) when it died
    1997 Avenger == 16 years when transmission started slipping (so I traded it in). If I had fixed the trans I have no doubt the car would go another 10 years, because the engine still ran as smoothly as when it was new.
     
  11. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    Then tell us about them.
     
  12. Tony D

    Tony D Active Member

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    Do you really want to know about them Chuck?

    Troy needs to buy a Tata Nano and drive it for the next 15 years, thus saving himself a fortune.

    He can then buy a 10 yr old Tesla for fnck all and tell us how buying cars is a waste of money
     
    Chuck. likes this.
  13. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    He's spent a decade being a stranger, and I'm rubbing it in nobody really knows anything about him or his cars.

    Guess he wants his epitaph read this was his life's mission.
     
  14. canta

    canta Member

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    doable, as long as you fix all issue mostly by yourself, saving labor cost $$$$$

    I sold my Hyundai Tiburon after 11 year with 160K miles with some broken parts and issue (power windows died, stuck flasher that is in BCM, jerky transmision when start hitting the gas pedal, half-broken speedo cluster that sometime works and don't, leaking power steering that need to replace the whole pipe, leaking oil from engine, exploded driver side air-bag, torn driver leather seat, torn leather on steering wheel, cracked on windshields, and stuck sunroof that need to push by hands :D

    I maintained that car by myself and rarely went to the dealer, with minimal maintenance cost, overall $2000 for fixing A/C,O2 sensors(Check engine always on, they did/messed BCM and replace O2 sensor), and fuel pump issue.

    I can fix most of those issues by buying used parts and could drive it for 2 more years as my estimation,

    the main issue, I am busy with work, family, and 2 toddlers. not much time for fixing the car:|

    *I bought Hyundai Tiburon-> was mucho cheap at that time :D.
     
  15. JMD

    JMD 2012 Prius 4 Solar Roof

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    The longest I ever owned a car was 2 Honda civics 10 years 250,000 miles.

    You really get your money's worth on holding the car. Great not having car payments
     
  16. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    You bought a crap car, why would you expect it to last? The Prius is bulletproof and the pure EV's even more so with the 1-time expense of the battery. A $10K battery now will not cost $10K when it actually dies. My 8 year old Prius has required $0 in repairs just normal oil, ATF, wipers, tires, and filter changes.

    I also completely disagree with the numbers. $50,500 for a Leaf? I bought mine that was a top of the line model with every possible feature including the CHAdeMO port that I won't ever use (only 1 in the state hundreds of miles away) and tax, title, registration, etc for $35K. On the road for $35K. I then get $7500 back from the US. Then an additional $6000 back from Colorado. bringing it immediately down to $21,500. Assuming 315W per mile for 225K miles is 70875KW used to travel 225K miles. Assuming I pay for 100% of my charging and assuming I pay full retail price of $0.10/KWh which includes all taxes, connection fees, and the actual electricity That comes to just over $7K in energy costs. Now we are at $28,500, where does the additional $22K in costs come from? In reality I charge for free when I am out on the town at public chargers, for free at work, for free at Nissan dealerships and the big one for "free" at my house with solar panels. Essentially I am buying back the excess I create in the day, but that's a technicality. Then I also get to take 30% of the cost of installing a couple chargers in the garage for my eventual Tesla that can be used for the Leaf now.

    If you are within the range of a Leaf and can stand it's funny looks, then it makes total financial sense. It doesn't work for me as a single vehicle household, but we are a multi-multi-multi car household. This weekend when I went hiking I took the Prius since it was 100 miles away. And the Prius is a great work truck for moving big stuff around town and to and from Home Depot. The Leaf is great for pretty much everything else.
     
  17. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    Old battery packs can often be refurbished for less than wholesale replacement.

    So implying an entire battery pack must be replaced is often a fallacy.
     
  18. canta

    canta Member

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    crap or not is on your perception.
    I bought at that time,was less than any other car with options and size.
    I sold with a good amount of money..

    $2000 maintenancefor 11 year is pretty good, hey this is Hyundai,Not Toyota
    at the time, Hyundai car is a lot cheaper:p,why not...

    post to hyundai tiburon forum that the car is crap heheheh..


    Actually, I bought Prius that replaced Tiburon, hopefully can last 12-15 years...
    I would assume within 10 years, HV battery need a replacement..
    buying car is not an investment, but I need a ride to make money:D
     
  19. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    ^ Troy Heagy, er canta - I know a sock puppet when I see one. You did this at GreenHybrid dot com. canta joined yesterday and strangely supports your view....hmmmm.
     
  20. -1-

    -1- Don

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    :)Great information. I've transitioned in the right direction in the past few years. Three years ago, I had six vehicles. As of today, I'll be down to three, which is perfect. My 2012 Prius PIPA, our 2006 VW NewBeetle TDI, and my wife's 2006 MB SLK. Reliable transportation, with emphasis on fuel efficiency, and some fun.
     
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