150K miles - front brakes 'cleanup'

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by don_chuwish, Apr 15, 2019.

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  1. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Recently I did the front brakes on my 2005 Honda Odyssey - new pads & rotors. I'm very gentle on brakes, it had been many years and over 60K miles since the dealer did the work last time. What I found was a wake up call - the caliper guide pins were near fully seized up. Made me realize that even if your pads aren't worn out it is a good idea to go through everything once in a while.
    Take that thinking over to my 2007 Prius with near 150K miles and NEVER had a brake job done... So yesterday I took the pads and pins out. One pin on each side was a little sticky but not horrible. The crud buildup inside the caliper and around the brake hardware was reasonable. I cleaned and relubed the pins so they move freely, cleaned the pads and hardware, put a little lube (Syl-glide) between the shims and on the caliper surfaces, a little between the hardware and bracket seats. Basically everything I would do if actually replacing the pads - but the pads still look great. Lots of meat left on them.
    During a test drive I was pleasantly surprised by an improved brake feel but mostly I just feel better knowing everything was spiffed up. A satisfyingly scratched itch so to speak. Highly recommend!
     
  2. bobodaclown

    bobodaclown Member

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    Funny I've got an Odyssey and Prius also. Had an 07 Odyssey but it got totalled now a 12, and 09 Prius with 135k.
     
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yup. Toyota USA advocates a proper brake inspection, not just the 5K visual inspection with tire rotation, every 30K miles or 3 years, whichever comes first.
     
  4. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Makes sense, and not hard to DIY. So easy I now can't trust it to a dealership or other shop. The sticky pins on the Odyssey were because the mechanic had lubed them with what looked and smelled like black axle grease. The little rubber dampers on the pins were completely swollen and had to be replaced. Syl-glide is nice stuff.
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yeah I've found Sil-Glyde Brake lubricant works good for pins and rubber, where Toyota calls for lithium soap something, IIRC. I usually use Permatex Anti-Seize on contact points between pad backs, shims and caliper, from Honda Shop Manual recommendation, but I think either is fine.

    Some 2nd Gen Repair Manual brake info attached.
     

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  6. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Nice way to flesh out the thread, thanks!
     
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  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Yeah, the Toyota spec'd "lithium soap based glycol grease" really does exist, with a part number (08887-01206) and everything.

    [​IMG]

    I have no ax to grind with sil-glyde, but Mendel almost seems to be working for them, what with the continual jumping in to plug it and feign ignorance about the specified stuff.
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    You're on to me. :rolleyes:

    Seriously, I've used a couple of lubes on brakes since the eighties, always Hondas up till now. They work for me, I'm not pushing them: just saying what I used.

    Honda's got proprietary brake greases too, and I'd suspect mazda, Nissan, and so on.

    Does the grease you picture say "lithium soap based glycol"?
     
    #8 Mendel Leisk, Apr 16, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I've given it every opportunity, and never heard it say anything at all.

    Seriously, the tube is printed mostly in Japanese, which I don't read. There is nothing on it in English that gives the composition of the grease at all. There is a sticker of health info in English that is pasted over a whole panel of Japanese that I can neither read nor even see.

    It seems like you've raised this question before. But why focus exclusively on what the tube says?

    The person who responded last time you asked said "the answer is yes. compare the part number with your service manual", which might, ok, have been too flip: as far as I can tell, there aren't any part numbers for greases (at least nothing if I search on the greasy 08887- prefix) given in the Repair Manual proper.

    TSBs are a different story. For example, T-SB-0150-13, on the first page:

    fett0.png

    and later ...

    fett1.png

    (Not a bad TSB to bookmark, even though it's specifically about Corolla / Matrix; it has the grease part number, and a pretty good basic walkthrough of a front brake job).

    I've bought Toyota caliper rebuild kits for my cars. The kits come with a little plastic packet of grease. The grease in the packet is this stuff.

    I've bought a Toyota replacement caliper and taken it apart. The grease in it is this stuff. (Or, if you want to go all Heinlein on me, it is the same color as this stuff, with the same clarity as this stuff, and the same kind of distinctive mushroomy smell.)

    Is there any reason we're still "teaching the controversy"?
     
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  10. don_chuwish

    don_chuwish Well Seasoned Member

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    Wow, what a derail. Syl-glide works, Permatex makes products that work, and every car brand will specify something with their name on it. Independent shops that do brake jobs all day don't grab from an array of brand specific grease. They use what they know works. In the end it's lubrication that has to survive extremes and not swell up the rubber parts. Getting to NAPA when you need something is a lot easier than dealership parts counter hours.
     
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  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I actually don't have an ax to grind on Sil-glyde, other than to point out it is a silicone product, and Toyota specs, for whatever reason, a lithium soap glycol. I am not one of Toyota's materials engineers, and I don't pretend to know why they specify a different formula. There are many different chemistries of "rubber", and presumably they know what theirs is.

    I could choose to ignore their specs when working on my own car (it turns out I don't, but I could), but posting on a public forum is a different story.

    And I wouldn't have anything against Mendel or anybody else saying "hey, I use Sil-glyde, or Product X, and it seems to work, and I'm happy with it", as long as there's transparency to it. It's easy to make that kind of a plug in a responsible way:

    • Mention that there is a manufacturer spec
    • Give the part number for the specified stuff
    • Mention that there's a different product you've been substituting for it for n years and you're happy with it and haven't had problems
    • If, as in this case, the substitute you're using is a different chemistry, mention that.

    That way, other readers of the forum have been responsibly informed, and they can decide to use the specified stuff or your suggested substitute, and if they do, they do it knowingly.

    Easy.
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Here's one Honda Manual caliper pin lubricant spec., for another "data point". I happen to have this one in pdf format; it's fairly recent, for 2010 Pilot:

    upload_2019-4-23_7-35-2.png
     
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Yeah, I had a Ford once too, where their recommendation for the rubbery bits was a silicone.

    I have no more knowledge than anyone else in this thread about why Toyota favors a different chemistry there (though by this point, it never surprises me if Elektroingenieur swoops in with some obscure Japanese treatise that explains everything).

    Failing that, I might make a note-to-self that if I'm ever in some unlikely situation where I'm rebuilding a Toyota caliper but using parts made with Honda's rubber formula, maybe I should consider using a silicone grease ... or, conversely, the day I find myself building a Honda caliper with Toyota rubber parts, maybe lithium soap based glycol for the win. I have both kinds, so it wouldn't be any trouble.

    But both of those frankensteiny situations seem a little far fetched.

    Mixing the two chemistries of grease, i.e. failing to completely remove one with brake cleaner before using the other, is probably inadvisable. I don't have specific knowledge of the compatibility of these two chemistries, that's just a basic recommendation about mixing grease formulas in general.
     
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