1NZ-FE cams in a 1NZ-XFE plus larger injectors and E85

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Accessories & Modifications' started by SuperRunner, Jun 11, 2010.

  1. SuperRunner

    SuperRunner New Member

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    I am a huge fan of ethanol, and I use it in 3 of my other high performance turbo cars.

    The problem with ethanol and conventional gas motors is the compression is too low to take advantage of the fuel resulting in poor fuel economy.

    WHAT IF... you were to take the cams from the "Otto" 1NZ-FE motor and drop them into the Prius "Atkinson" with the higher compression.

    I you are looking to maximize MPG from a prius, this would definintly not help, but would allow you to run a more ECO friendly vehicle, but still maintain a better than average MPG as compared to other vehicles.

    Main question is, is it even possible, are the cams a direct swap?

    Also can use injectors that are about 25% larger, then use a fuel management tool like an Apexi AFC to adjust the trims and the O2 sensors will do the rest.

    A high compression 13:1 prius running E85 would be a great combo, not to mention that E85 is generally a little cheaper than pump gas.
     
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  2. a_gray_prius

    a_gray_prius Rare Non-Old-Blowhard Priuschat Member

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    A few people have used E85 in their Priuses. I can't comment on the cam swap. Do you think you'll be able to get the AFC to work with the ECU (esp. in controlling the HSD power and drive ratio)? How much timing advance do you think you're going to be able to achieve with it? E85 is cheaper than pump gas, but you don't get the same gas mileage since you use more of it.

    * I have run E85 in my Evo before.
     
  3. SuperRunner

    SuperRunner New Member

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    Most motors are not designed to run E85, therefore not a really great alternative fuel if you still want good fuel economy. Much of the energy from E85 is wasted, and if used probably would match if not exceed the same MPG as pump gas.

    This is where the cams come in. By running standard cams, and not the ultra long duration intake cam that the prius uses, you will increase actual compression to the 13:1 that the motor actually is. Will you get 55MPG? Probably not, because you just got rid of one of the main reasons why the Prius does get that. Could you get 45MPG? I would think you could, but with an added bonus. A 13:1 compression 1.5L motor running on E85 would probably be putting out over 150hp, making the combined output of over 200hp from the Prius, but still maintain 40-45MPG, AND eco friendly!!!!

    You don't mess with the timing, leave it alone, that would require re-flashing the ECU, which I don't know if that part of the ecu is re-flashable, or standalone...not going to work with the hybrid stuff very well but could be done as a standalone piggy back type system.(factory ECU thinks that it is controlling engine, but it only recieves signals and you use dummy loads for injectors and coils)

    I ran over 900rwhp(1100bhp) on my 3.0 lexus on E70, at 30 pounds of boost and 28 degrees timing, I could not get it to detonate. The fuel is just amazing, but 10:1 compression just cannot take advantage of it. I have another lexus with a supercharger that only runs 7 psi of SUPER HOT AIR, non-intercooled(broken recirc pump). On 100 degree day, I ran that up to 8,000RPM and 34 degrees of timing on a 10:1 motor, and I still could not get to detonate.



     
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  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    Not possible, for simple thermodynamic reasons. Alcohol has a lower energy density than gasoline. The only way you can get better MPG from alcohol is to compare it to a poorly designed gasoline engine.

    Tom
     
  5. SuperRunner

    SuperRunner New Member

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    Not possible? Atkinson vs Otto prove that it is possible.

    Sure volume wise it has less energy than gasoline, but now lets talk about wasted energy.
     
  6. SuperRunner

    SuperRunner New Member

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  7. a_gray_prius

    a_gray_prius Rare Non-Old-Blowhard Priuschat Member

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    I'm curious what the resulting power curve will eventually look like. I don't think the Prius engine (or the Echo engine) is designed to turn over particularly quickly.

    I'm assuming the Lexus you're talking about has either a 1JZ or a 2JZ? Those blocks are built a lot stronger than what I expect of the 1NZ, and I'm sure the combustion dynamics are also a little different.
     
  8. SuperRunner

    SuperRunner New Member

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    only an 84mm stroke, they can turn quick, although I am still learning about what the offset crank is all about. The cams and ECU is what limits the RPM's. At an 84mm bore and forged rods, 9,000rpm would be rather easy to do. But, I wouldn't be doing this for power as the main goal. Main goal is to be more eco friendly, while getting a decent power boost, and maintaining great MPG.

    Yeah, 2J motor in the lexus. Old school GS300. Had a MKIV, but sold it to work on the GS. I like sleepers.


    As for a question earlier about the SAFC, yes can easily work with the ecu. 25% larger injectors for E85 and the SAFC, just to fine tune it.
     
  9. doug77

    doug77 New Member

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    I like your thinking. That is worth looking into. I am on the other side and want to run alcohol in my xB (1nz-fe engine). Do you know how they get the 13:1 in the 1nz-xfe? I wonder if a piston swap would also work (into an xB motor to run well on alcohol.)

    A good friend of mine has used the magasquirt on his miata and highly recommends it. I hear it can work for most cars.

    -Doug
     
  10. SuperRunner

    SuperRunner New Member

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    Not sure on the compression, I haven't looked any further into the off-set crank think. My guess it is a combo of head/piston.

    I wouldn't go megasquirt, there are other systems out there that don't cost too much more that can do a whole lot more. The money saved is not worth the time that you will spend building, and troublshooting hardware.

    I would go AEM stand alone and piggy back that onto the factory ECU to retain your hybrid function, and OBDII compliency.

    You can get a honda AEM for as cheap as $600, and sometimes even less, just don't ask where they got it from...haha.
     
  11. josh2008

    josh2008 Active Member

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    This, is just awesome.
     
  12. toyotechwv

    toyotechwv Toyota Technician

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    Any updates on this?? Just wondering if anyone has taken the first step at the cam swap. I've thought about it myself, or even just a 1nz-fe swap.
     
  13. Justdidit

    Justdidit LVNPZEV

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    Anyone else look into this!? Not the E85 but the cam swap??

    Been pluggin over at MI and YW...

    From the 1.5 1NZ-FE: Yaris, Echo, Scion xB & xA

    Cam 1: 13502-21031 (Prius: 13502-21021)
    Cam 2: 13501-21030 (Prius: 13501-21060)
    Cam Gear: 13050-21041 (Prius: 13050-21051)
    Sprocket: 13050-21041 (SAME AS PRIUS)
    Timing Chain: 13506-21050 (SAME AS PRIUS)
    Rings: 13011-21041 (Prius: 13011-21100)
    Pistons: 13101-21070 (Prius: 13101-21110)
    Rods: 13201-29735 (SAME AS PRIUS)
    Bearings: all three (SAME AS PRIUS)
    Cylinder Head: 11101-21062 (SAME AS PRIUS)

    Even the valves are the same...

    1NZ-FE
    [​IMG]

    1NZ-FXE
    [​IMG]

    I say CAMs and CAM Gear swap is in order!! With some decent EM - this could be fun!!
     
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  14. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    I want the piston concession on this, someone is going to sell a lot of pistons.
     
  15. Agent J

    Agent J Hypoliterian

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    sounds promising! if you got a bit more moolah, you may want to try this which has more lift and sold here (but not the bolt-on type with a bit less lift and need not touch the ECU.. so they say.. )

    if it fits, then cool as.. but if the ECU gets confused somehow with the increased lift when it was programmed for something probably more specific, then i just wonder how it would behave. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Justdidit

    Justdidit LVNPZEV

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    I agree that the JUN cams LOOK like they'd b good, but on other forums, they don't appear to have outstanding reviews for the $800 sticker price.

    Prob just need to adjust the timing and A/F ratio and this would be a great project! - if you moved the timing chain up a bit with a AEM F/IC you could retard the timing to adjust according while adjusting the A/F ratio to compensate for the OEM tune (can't increase timing with the AEM F/IC only retard)
     
  17. Justdidit

    Justdidit LVNPZEV

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  18. Justdidit

    Justdidit LVNPZEV

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    Is the 90k mileage too high or should that matter for the swap?
     
  19. 69shovlhed

    69shovlhed Surly tree hugger

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    if you put those cams in your engine, i hope you got something else to drive... maybe for a while...
     
  20. Justdidit

    Justdidit LVNPZEV

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    Ya, been thinking that route. Just trying to get a good ideal of what is needed. Full exhaust first. :) I won't jump until I land a good deal on a EM. Preferably AEM F/IC.
     
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