Featured 2 New Toyota Hybrids To Be Revealed May 18

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Tideland Prius, May 11, 2020.

  1. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I bet if you drew a Venn diagram of "People who are more likely to buy the uptrim model" and "people who intend to solve a flat tire situation by calling roadside assistance" you would see a very strong overlap.
     
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  2. rdgrimes

    rdgrimes Senior Member

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    ^^^
    You can buy the donut spare from the dealer or even on eBay, so its certainly no reason to refuse to buy a car.
    Having had the experience of being beside the road with a shredded tire due to a road hazard, I for one will never be without a spare and jack.
     
  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    For new Sienna eAWD models, I wonder if there is a enough room to store a spare tire under the car. Previous mechanical AWD Sienna did not have that option, so if you opt for a spare tire, you lose the ability to stow the third seat. That's a deal breaker for many.
     
  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    That's the old Sienna. I was referring to the new one where you snipped the US press release that stated all models had a spare tyre as an available option. In Canada, that's not the case. (at least from what I read)
     
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  5. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I guess I would anticipate losing some cabin space until we see some photos or a detailed statement on the size and shape of the spare storage in relation to the AWD scheme.

    I certainly can't speak for this particular van, but keep in mind that many have enough space behind the rearmost seats to accommodate a compact spare mounted standing against the side wall where hatchbacks and CUVs are just a bit too short of space with some exterior contours.
     
  6. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I also don't know much about newer Sienna, but for our 2005 AWD Sienna, there was no way to put the spare tire in the compartment behind the third-row bench seat and retain the ability to stow away the third seat. Those seats are big and bulky.

    Screenshot 2020-05-21 at 1.14.44 PM.png
     
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    They could mount an external one.
     
  8. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    We got a new 01 MPV back in the day that served our growing family well. (y) I recently picked up a minty, used '12 Mazda 5 to serve as a local driver/utility vehicle to also handle some pickup-ish type duties too now that our OutBack is gone.

    I also shopped Prius v's on the lower priced end of the market and those have a lot of miles; head gaskets and traction battery repairs come to mind. That combined with the smaller cargo zone and shorter hatch opening ruled it out.
     
  9. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Are you saying new eAWD Sienna has enough room under the car to externally mount a spare tire just like non-AWD models? The problem of mechanical AWD Sienna models at least in 2005 AWD Sienna we owned, was that rear differential and other AWD mechanical parts made it impossible to mount external spare tire. That's why all of AWD model of Sienna always came with Run-Flat tires to mitigate the problem of not having a spare tire.

    Or, are you saying there is an external spare tire carrier option that can mount on the back of the car much like Jeep Wrangler?
     
  10. royrose

    royrose Senior Member

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    The Toyota press release about the Venza says it will have a Lithium Ion battery. I couldn't find whether the Sienna does. Has it been confirmed what kind of battery the Sienna has?
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Most are below the 'DPF' threshold, but it isn't impossible for a model to exceed it. Look inside the tail pipes of a port injected gas engine and DPF diesel of similar vintage and use, which use a bigger soot build up?
    I think @wxman has followed this more closely.

    But either way, we are entering an era where groups are designing vacuum systems to reduce the amount of dust coming off brake systems At source brake dust collection system - ScienceDirect, and tires are a major source of microplastic. Then CO, HC, and NOx limits haven't stayed at were they started in the '70s.

    BEVs aren't a solution for every role. Batteries and charging systems should advance for them to work for more and more of them, but it isn't a given. Currently, gasoline hybrids aren't even a solution to all roles.

    The majority of supporters for FCEVs are pushing hydrogen for the fuel. Toyota themselves have decided to make it from Australian brown coal for Japan.

    Then at this time, the easier. thus cheaper, renewable fuel that works as a drop in replace for concurrent infrastructure and vehicles is diesel. Renewable methane is actually easier, and just switching a gasoline car to CNG cleans up its emissions, but CNG would require switching infrastructure and vehicles over to it. Granted that would be cheaper than switching to hydrogen.

    Articles on the 2016 and 2020 V6(4 cylinder is a port injected carry over) say it is dual system, and even D-4S. So does The Wiki, but Toyota's site and the 2020 Tacoma say it's a direct injected atkinson, while the Camry entry says dual injected D-4S for the same displacement V6.

    Perhaps the 2016 Tacoma actually had D-4S, and quietly switched it. More likely there was some confusion with the new Camry that was soon arriving or just announcements of new engines coming. Followed up by lazy researching.

    While market demographics can't be counted out, the real reason likely has to do with emission and economy testing.

    Cars go into 'bins' of a narrow weight range. If a trim falls outside the bin of its fellows, the manufacturer will have to test it separately, at their expense, and publish a separate figure for it. Meanwhile, trims in the same bin can all just use the results of the highest selling one, thus saving testing money.

    Higher priced trims add features that increase weight, and spare tires are no light weights. A separate window sticker on the entry trim if it didn't have a spare might come in better than the more profitable ones, and reduce those sales. Besides removing the spare is really easy, and gives dealers something to upsell.

    The US Prius LE has a spare while the the XLE doesn't. The L Eco is an exception as Toyota was trying for the highest MPG with it. Then there are exceptions like the 2013 Sonic didn't have a spare in the lowest trim, which was likely to have the lowest price for advertising and fleet sales.

    Depends on where the eAWD equipment is in relation to the spare tire space. The Rav4h has a spare, but it is inside, where it could be in the way of folding seats. The E-four Prius doesn't has the inverter is installed in the spare tire well.

    My bet is that the eAWD Sienna won't have a spare. The motor and drive axle are going to end up in the same spot and the mechanical drive train to the rear in the previous model. Then minivans generally don't have the added ground clearance like a SUV that might have made keeping the spare more feasible.
    Picture the extra weight needed to the tailgate to handle that. Don't see it happening after Toyota went and moved the spare form there on their car SUVs.

    A hitch mounted spare carrier won't hurt the aero like it would on a Prius or Camry, and there are probably solutions to have it not in the way of the door, like some bike racks.

    It was mentioned here that it was NiMH, and up by the front seats. there are Venza and Sienna specific threads in the Toyota subforum.
     
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  12. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Roof rack anyone? They have plenty of options for that or even on the basket carried via the trailer hitch as @Trollbait stated.


    iPad ? Pro
     
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  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, I tried that with our 2005 AWD Sienna which came with roof rack but not a trailer hitch. But lifting 50+ lb mounted tire on top of the roof was not an easy task. I had a full size wheel and tire.:(
     
    #133 Salamander_King, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Some vehicles (Honda Pilot for example), hang a spare under the hatch area. It gets filthy, and it's not fun getting it down, doubly so in bad weather.
     
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  15. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    From no spare to okay you can have a spare that's difficult to stow, now the spare tire's accommodations aren't tidy and weatherproof. What's next? Spare tire needs a good view of the road, its own AC vent and a cupholder? The picnic set included with the tire change tools only has 4 place settings and the caviar spoons are only plated??

    ;)
     
  16. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Yeah I can imagine. And now with the XSE and Platinum 2021 Sienna getting 20” tires, they gotta be approaching 60+ lbs.

    Yeah my T100 had the tire under the bed. It was a PITA in any weather to lower it because you had to feed a rod through a hole and it took a few dozen turns. And that was to just check the pressure before a long trip. Can’t say I missed that.



    iPad ? Pro
     
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  17. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Note it is the 18" sizes that are no spare. 17"s have one.
     
  18. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Agreed...Minivan is outdated term...we should just say "Van" or maxiVan

    Hmm we already committed to the RAV4H when our 06 Prius HVbatt died just before the pandemic shutdown. I was hoping VenzaH would be smaller than RAV4H. Maybe I am more interested in maybe a used Sienna Hy to replace our gasser "maxi"van in a few years

    Fun fact the old classic Saris Roof Rack we used for the Gen2 seems to fit RAV4H. I think RAV4H is NiMH.

    Our 06 Prius was an early victim of COVID in Feburary before we knew the germs were spreading.
     
    #138 wjtracy, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Now a roof rack would negatively affect a van's aero.

    Noted in a owners' manual once that using a roof rack was considered severe duty in terms of maintenance schedules.

    Sounds like that is where it is on the current Sienna, and where it was on the family Astrovan. It's a good spot for maximizing rear interior space.

    Getting under a pick up for oil changes is easy though. Put the spare in valve stem down, and you could check it then without dropping it.

    The old Venza was bigger than the Rav4. The wheelbase of the C-HR is just 2 inches shorter the the Rav's, and the length about 10. There is a greater difference between the Rav and Higlander.
     
    #139 Trollbait, May 21, 2020
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  20. wxman

    wxman Active Member

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    Yes, here are a few studies regarding PM/PN emissions from PFI engines:

    Real driving particle number (PN) emissions from China-6 compliant PFI and GDI hybrid electrical vehicles - ScienceDirect
    Particle Emissions from Light-Duty Vehicles during Cold-Cold Start
    Solid Particle Emissions from Vehicle Exhaust during Engine Start-Up
    https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es501791b

    It also appears PM/PN emissions from tires are being underestimated in emission inventories:

    Tyres Not Tailpipe — Emissions Analytics
     
    #140 wxman, May 21, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2020
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