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2 Time Alignment Fail, Right Front Caster Off.

Discussion in 'Prius v Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by jzchen, Jun 9, 2020.

  1. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    Had a shop and then a dealer align the car. Was told/hoping that I would get information from the dealer that would direct me towards what needed replacing to fix the out of caster setting. There has been impacts on that tire location. First original tire popped because my dad hit something. The replacement also seemed to have the same issue recently. Combined with the rest of the 215/50R17 Toyos being worn out and curb rash galore, I replaced the wheels and tires. I've attached the two printouts.

    Should I try to replace the strut for now? Right front control arms? Both strut and arms? Then have it realigned again?

    Thanks, and take care.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. pjksr02

    pjksr02 Active Member

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    Is that mileage correct? It's not a lot, but it sounds like there could is damage due to hitting something, so that a component is bent, and alignment can't be done to spec. It could be more than one part, too.

    The dealer would be the most expensive place to get the work done, as you know, but you'd get a warranty on parts and labor. If you trust that first repair shop, I'd go back see what they say (avoid national chains). If you have a local suspension shop, with a good reputation, that would be even better, for another opinion.

    If you're a budding mechanic, you could replace all the relevant parts on that side (strut, mounts, control arm, tie rod end, sway bar link, (maybe even the ball joint)), then get an alignment, for less than having the strut and control arm replaced at a shop.

    Doubtful, but it could also be a deformed steering knuckle. I once bent a knuckle hammering off a corroded brake rotor, up here in the Rust Belt. Still, a knuckle isn't super expensive.

    Are there driveability issues? Does the car pull to a side? Pulling during braking? Are the tires wearing unevenly? Is the handling responsive?
     
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  3. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    Thank you so much for the detailed input!

    Yes, the mileage is that low. My dad is 89, and over the years has impacted a lot of things. (My mom while still driving had backed into the wall of her building at work. But I assume that is completely unrelated to this issue as it's the rear end). He has reported each time the front right tire went flat making an early turn and impacting something so the tire burst in catastrophic failure, then he continued to drive for a little while until he got to a location. This last time I noticed the tire flat in our driveway and immediately went on to forget it! He then drove about 3.5 miles to the office, and later called me about the flat that I had forgotten about.

    The first shop does tires, wheels, and alignment. No repairs. The owner advised me that it was too little to be concerned. I took it to another reputable shop and similar response, he also made suggestion for body shop where they might fix this alignment issue by pulling with chains and or frame machine. The dealer SA said they'd give me an idea of what needs to be done when I made the appointment yesterday afternoon. I'm afraid I didn't get direction on what is bent, and advice that if it is driving okay should be fine.

    It's driving okay. Just annoyed as it has brand new tires and would like to take care of them.

    I saw a few complete strut assemblies yesterday afternoon:. Sensen and KYB. Monroe doesn't seem to make a complete assembly anymore. I noticed the Sensen is much lighter than the KYB. Is that a bad sign? There was also a brand called TRQ. I hope to do work myself and then have it realigned. Since the negative camber is showing up more now I assume it is bent strut? Any thoughts on aftermarket parts options that are good?

    Thanks again!!!

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  4. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    I've been researching on what parts to get for quite some time now. I finally bumped into some bushings that provide an amount of caster adjustment! I guess I should ask the alignment shop if they would be able to adjust the alignment with these installed...

    SuperPro Control Arm Bush Kit for TOYOTA PRIUS V 2011-on - ZVW40

    Much less headache then throwing a lot of different parts at her. Thoughts please? (Thank you).
     
  5. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    #5 jzchen, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  6. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    It's been 13 weeks since I placed the order. Still haven't received the bushings....

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  7. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    Bushings are FINALLY on their way. Debating to try to buy a hydraulic press to install them, before taking back for an alignment. Do I need anything stronger than the 12 ton available at Harbor Freight? I bought the different size press whatchamacallits off eBay... JPEG_20201107_180539_8067381464920824442.jpg

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  8. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    The bushings arrived. Sorting through a 2-day Techinfo subscription seems like left side is not too difficult to remove the lower control arm, but instructions are sketchy for the right hand side. If it's accurate that I need to lower the "front suspension crossmember sub-assembly" to remove the right lower arm then this may be way above my abilities, especially since I don't have an engine lift or the like....

    Sigh, does anyone know from experience?
     
  9. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    Took a peek. The right side is blocked by the oil filter housing. The left side looks like the transmission might be in the way but instructions say it can be removed without further tinkering. Likely but not 100% sure... IMG_20201113_150319249.jpg IMG_20201113_150305652.jpg

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  10. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    Pulled the oil filter housing very little oil came out. May not even need to add any. There were 4 bolts not 3, I was mistaken. Three look like they have blue Locktite. Not strong enough to leverage the big bolt(s) loose. Gonna try again tomorrow...

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  11. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    From the OP, to me it looks like the right front caster is off a hair and that might be what's throwing the cross camber and cross caster off. I'd ask an alignment specialist what usually cases that.
    Since I don't know exactly which angles caster and camber relate to, even though I was told after a second alignment done at the same shop 5 years apart, that I'd need a cam kit, because they couldn't get the alignment in spec anymore. I'll see if I can find that alignment printout..

    I did a search for caster alignment and found this tool and a video showing how it works
    Camber Gauge and Castor Tools

    No clues yet about which suspension components on your V will help you get it back into spec.
     
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  12. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    @vvillovv Thank you so much for the input!

    Nothing is obvious from visual inspection, but I just know something got bent. Twice a right front tire blew under my father's driving, from impacting something. I actually took it to three shops, my favorite alignment place, another reputable mechanic, and the dealer, who promised me they'd tell me what was wrong, but unfortunately did not. My alignment shop said don't worry it is not a tire wearing issue. The second shop confirmed he can't fix it. The dealer, well, I got another alignment and no insight as promised. The funny thing is is that if they in fact did figure out what was wrong I would have likely paid them to fix it!

    I got this Super Pro bushing set, as well as the front one. There are two bushings in the lower control arm and the ball joint is a separate piece. Will try to snap a picture. Supposed to correct up to 0.5 degree of castor on one side in the orientation given. It took countless weeks to get to me but what can I say COVID....

    I'm having a poopoo of a time trying to get the lower control arm out. I used a jack and breaker bar to loosen the front bolt I just wasn't strong enough to get it to budge by arm force. I'll try to attach a picture of what it looks like, may have to replace the ball joint it is badly bent! (Sigh). JPEG_20201116_102341_7305868862034128495.jpg JPEG_20201116_102547_587808543789965322.jpg

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  13. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    Here's where I'm stuck. Being on the not so muscular side of the spectrum definitely does not help, but I'm supposed to separate the lower arm from the ball joint at this point, actually per instructions prior to loosing up the inner attachments but I don't think loosening them up a bit would cause it to be stuck.

    I tried jacking at a few points and it was still stuck like that:

    tried lifting at the disc brake disc
    tried lifting at the ball joint
    tried lifting the lower control arm

    All resulted in raising the entire car up vs compressing the suspension. I guess the next thing to try is to compress the strut spring to try to relieve the pressure... JPEG_20201116_103340_8058612408402175965.jpg

    moto g(7) power ?
     
  14. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    I was able to break the ball loose using the ole deep socket between the arm and the knuckle. But not before I almost bought 3/4 in. Ball Joint Separator
    When they're stuck they're a bear.
    Maybe if the studs are bent, that might be most of the reason the alignment wouldn't spec out.
    I had to replace the arm to get mine to spec up.
    My alignment printout scanned in mirror image - not sure what that's about. The toe was out on all 4 wheels. It didn't cause unusual wear or effect handling, at least that I could tell on a 11 year old car.
    I think the damage happened 6 years before the second alignment in 2013.
    I'm just glad I found it. I think the dealer missed it in 2005 when they replaced the stabilizer links up front - the stabilizer links are under the arms in the pics.

    lower-control-arm-old.jpg lower-control-arm-new.jpg

    edit those studs look really dry in the pic. liquid wrench PbBlaster wd-40 or something from above and below.
     
    #14 vvillovv, Nov 16, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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  15. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    @vvillovv -. Yikes!!! To be honest I missed it. Upon reviewing the first pic looks like that may have given way at any moment! For an at home mechanic without a lift I guess it would be harder to see but with a lift at the dealer to miss that I don't know what to say.

    Delay in work:

    Yesterday I finally opened the strut spring compressor I bought (1 yr and 1 month ago) at Harbor Freight. (We had a front air strut failure in the Panamera and I was hoping to replace it on my own but ended up paying a local independent). Low and behold it was missing a silver securing pin. So I called support, got a run around as I was honest about buying it beyond 90 days ago. Lady tried to send me to warranty I guess. Then back to spare parts none are available! So I called the store where I got it and lady transfers me to the manager who says bring it in and they'll swap it out. Sure enough they kindly did. By the time I got back home after all that I was tired and didn't feel like messing with spring forces which I'm fearful of....

    Looking at possibly getting a ball joint at an AutoZone which has two versions in stock. Trying to make $50 for $10 off $50 or more promotion. Researched Mevotech but seems like warranty is not as good, plus don't know if any local stock, would have to deal with warranty shipping hassle if anything happens.

    I have a universal tool kit for the bushing replacement but it is hammer type. Not good with a hammer I found a local store Econo Super Store in City of Industry sells the two kits I'm considering to try to screw press the old bushings out. I hope to use the new bushing to press the old one out and install in one step. Partly because the large diameter bushing is oddly sized around 67.5 mm if my ruler is accurate. If I use the new bushing it should match perfectly and also help line it up with the hole at the same time. I can use the larger diameter plate I have because instructions say to level the bottom of the new bushing with the bottom of the arm. Hoping that I can push the old bushings through crossing my fingers on that...

    moto g(7) power ?
     
    #15 jzchen, Nov 17, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  16. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    are you able to get the cotter pin- than crown nut off the top of the ball joint - without having to pull the CV shaft out of the knuckle.
    | McGeorge Toyota Parts
    or closer to your location
    OEM Toyota Parts Online near San Diego, CA | Toyota of Poway grrrr have to put in year make model trim than front suspension than front suspension again to get to the page I tried to link to,,,

    good to see what the OE part looks like to compare with aftermarket if you choose that part.

    and the kicker - if one of the arm bolts wouldn't come out because the oil pan is in the way?


    You might be able to rent a bushing press kit at one of your local auto parts stores.

    Me personally, I wouldn't want to try to press those cam kit bushings because I'd be afraid of having to repress them, and possible repress them several times to get alignment to spec.

    My 72 Charger had cam bolts that went throw the lower control arm bushings. They worked well but they were designed for part of that cars suspension adjustment.
     
    #16 vvillovv, Nov 17, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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  17. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    If you have to pull the CV shaft out of the knuckle to get at the ball joints crown nut

    with car on ground fit large socket to axle nut - brake loose the crimped crown axle nut with a breaker bar and cheater extension if needed.

    loosen lugs - lift car - pull wheel and tire - remove axle nut -

    turn axle nut around and screw it back on the axle so the nut protects to the axle theads and hit the nut with a 3 lb hammer to separate the CV shaft from the Knuckle (unless you can push the CV axle assmebly out of the knuckle using your thumbs). see (1) below

    clean and mark ( with paint or a permanent marker the outline of the strut clamp to the wheel knuckle (for alignment during reassembly)

    remove the two bolts and nuts from the strut clamp that attaches to the knuckle

    this can take a bit of wrestling with angles and CV compression by hand -
    pull the wheel knuckle out of the strut clamp -
    push the CV axle shaft through the wheel knuckle ( if it's still held in tightly) -
    turn the wheel knuckle all the way towards the front of the car -
    turn the wheel knuckle all the way towards the back of the car -

    This may be all you need to do to access the ball joint crown nut and cotter pin.

    if the ball joint crown nut is still not accessible -
    push the CV axle shaft toward the center of the car as far as you can by hand -
    while moving the knuckle both towards the front and towards the back /
    until you can remove the shaft from the knuckle.

    Than you can get to the ball joint crown nut for sure.

    (1)
    If the axle will not separate from the knuckle (more of an american made car issue)
    the easy way around, is to remove the CV axle shaft and the wheel knuckle assembly as a unit from the car and bring the unit to a shop with a hydraulic press.
     
    #17 vvillovv, Nov 17, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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  18. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    Thank you so much!

    Actually, the only thing in the way was the oil filter housing. I guess the configuration of the Prius v is different? (Shrugs). I didn't take a picture of it but the housing is out. I guess I could swap in the spin on type if I really wanted to, but I use the same Fram Ultra on my iQ which is not changeable to the spin on type so for convenience I just need one filter for both cars. I'm not planning on doing the mod.

    As of this morning looking at things with new sunlight the spring compressor idea did not work. (I even spent extra time lubing the threads with some Mobil 1 AP 0W-20. There's very little room to fit them and I barely got one on, tried to snug it up, only to realize the bolt basically reached the top. I decided not to try a lower rung. Anyways no hope in that direction I squeezed the ball joint downwards and pressed down on the lower control arm and it moved! I was able to separate it from the ball joint, and after pulling those two bolts (and one nut) I was able to remove the lower control arm!

    Now you got me thinking on what to do, whether to try the new bushings or start replacing parts. (I have a new confidence that I can change whatever is there now)...
     
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  19. jzchen

    jzchen Newbie!

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    Oh, the darn lower ball joint is leaking grease. Time to replace it. San Diego is 100 miles not really practical to go that far, but thank you. I'll try to check them out with regards to shipping. A few years ago when I got my iQ I found a site called oempartstoyou.com It is the online store of Toyota San Bernardino, which had very competitive pricing and allowed local pickup, so I got a bunch of accessories from them and drove there... I ordered the o-rings for the oil filter housing along with a couple of nuts I slightly rounded (turning the wrong direction) from Toyota of Pasadena yesterday. Should be there already. Do I dare get a Duralast ball joint? Free replacement for life but....
     
  20. vvillovv

    vvillovv Senior Member

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    Sometimes the aftermarket parts are just as good as the OE part, Sometimes better, and other times worse. Only experience will help with determining which to get for any one application - time convenience cost fit and quality.
    30april2012-civic-alignment.jpg 8nov2013-civic-alignment.jpg
    I had gotten new tires for the first alignment too.
     
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