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200 VDC - 240 VAC INSTALL PLEASE HELP, I will pay you if you get me lead for an inverter

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by georgefrank, Feb 26, 2023.

  1. georgefrank

    georgefrank Junior Member

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    If someone can help me find an inverter that will go from the 200 volt direct current traction battery to house power (120/240 vac, single phase) (regular home power)

    I will pay you a referral fee

    I am starting a search of the whole country looking for a lead on one. Its ok if its used, long as it is trusted brand.

    There is much junk in this market and I have already wasted hundred of dollars on smaller ones, and can easily waste thousands if I am guessing

    I dont care where it is located, I am willing to get it

    Please I need this, I will be living on it permanently

    The car is 2013 prius 2, non plug in
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Search the ‘plug out’ threads here
     
  3. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

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    Yeah there is a lot of crappy design in this market segment of this type of equipment that is a fact. Similar types of antics are going on in the standby home generator market also It's actually pretty big I had to get a friend of mine who's an electrician and a millwright and those a lot about this sort of thing to help me round up some inverter and generating devices that I wanted and I only wanted to do it once and boy there is a lot of crap equipment and advice in this market people will try to sell and tell you anything and I mean anything even educated folks fall for this stuff because they let their guard down for a minute
     
  4. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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  6. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    If you're living near me I can work with you and we can build a high quality safe one... But if you want all the warranty stuff and willing to pay way more for a quality product, your search starts and ends here: https://www.plugoutpower.com/
     
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  7. georgefrank

    georgefrank Junior Member

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    Where are you located? Please work with me digitally and I will pay you for your knowledge, 678-203-1104
     
  8. georgefrank

    georgefrank Junior Member

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    @PriusCamper

    I have an inverter, aurora pvi6000

    it can take 220 vdc - 240 vac

    only problem is it wants grid power and the property is off grid

    How can I trick the pvi6000 into thinking it has grid power?

    what about if I come off of the 12 V system of the Prius convert that to 240vac then plug that into the inverter to make it look like it has grid power then it will take big power from the incoming high-voltage side and give it to the panel in the home
     
  9. georgefrank

    georgefrank Junior Member

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    The property is off grid

    using a Prius as a generator to power an off grid tiny home

    Inverter being used: Aurora PVI6000

    Prius traction battery voltage: 220 DC

    Ran wire from Prius to pvi6000

    Inverter turned and said "Missing Grid"

    This is grid tie inverter and needs to be connected to grid for it to pump extra electricity to

    How can I utilize the capability of this inverter to take the high voltage direct current and turn it into 240AC?

    My idea: get battery bank and turn it into 240AC, plug that into the grid tie inverter, and it will think it has a grid, and any excess electricity will be stored in those batteries

    Will this solve the problem of using grid tie inverter in off grid situation?

    $100 reward paid electronically for a solution
     
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  10. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    The fundamental problem here is that grid-tie inverters like that Aurora are configured to add more power to a much larger power system- the grid. If you try to make it add power to a tiny little inverter's output, bad things will happen. They are dependent on the impedance of the grid to equilibriate their output.

    An offgrid, standalone or hybrid inverter (in offgrid mode) can self-regulate its output. It pushes current until the voltage target is hit, and then it backs off. Grid-tie inverters like the Aurora never back off. They push it all, because the designer assumed it would be pushing against the impedance of the entire power grid.

    EDIT: adding:

    Just to put this another way-
    Let's say you successfully trick the grid-tie inverter with AC from a second inverter. Do you realize what happens next? The Aurora immediately draws all the power it can from your Prius battery to make all the AC power it can, because that's how it is built.

    You probably don't want that. Offgrid inverters are wired to only draw what they need to support the load, adjusting instantly along the way. Grid-tie inverters are built to take all there is, because they always get hooked up to something that makes electricity for free.

    End edit​

    I think you've got a great idea overall for your off-grid power system, but that particular inverter simply isn't suitable. I suggest selling it off and using the recovered funds to get one of the solutions found in the link @ChapmanF provided above. Those are proven to work, people have run houses off them for extended periods.
     
    #10 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Mar 2, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2023
    CR94 and georgefrank like this.
  11. georgefrank

    georgefrank Junior Member

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    Huge appreciation for your knowledge :)

    If i build a tiny grid out of batteries and an inverter (small one) amounting to 240VAC and connect that to the pvi6000, wont the PVI6000 pump electricity into the fake grid until it senses voltage increase and then stop pumping into it once it senses the grid is "full"? It has tons of sensors, computers, etc.

    At that moment, the tiny home will have power coming from the pvi6000, the fake grid will be filled and will be giving the pvi6000 the thumbs up that its connected to the grid.
     
  12. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Okay, the first problem is that once the Aurora decides "okay, that's real grid power" it starts pulling all the power it can from the DC side. Because that's connected to solar panels and there is no cost to that power, remember?

    Except it's not connected to solar panels. You're supplying that energy via gasoline, and theoretically paying money for the gas. So the moment you get this thing on, it will start pulling a full 6000 watts because it is available, not because it has been demanded. Because again, it was designed with the assumptions that the grid could never possibly be "filled" by an inverter this small and all incoming DC power is free for the taking.

    Now let's say they put a safety sensor in it to notice an output going over-voltage. How would it react? By going into fault mode and shutting down, telling you to call for service. At best it'll have an auto-reset that forces it to listen to the grid power for 5-10 minutes before allowing a restart, which would just endlessly loop.

    But we have another problem. During that moment when it was pulling 6000 watts out of your Prius battery, it was stuffing that power... somewhere. Your small inverter is now a medium-sized cloud of smoke. Maybe other things too.

    You should get the right kind of inverter for your needs. The one you have now could lead to some real danger.
     
    #12 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Mar 3, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2023
  13. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Overall, a BAD plan.
    Maybe even a VERY bad plan.

    An actual home generator would be MUCH better........even if you have to buy a large propane tank to run it.

    It is very likely that your total home energy needs will be MORE than the Prius can supply.
    And in the end, you will have wasted a LOT of time and money finding that out.

    Have you investigated "off grid" solar solutions ?
     
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  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The car won't keep up with that, either.

    I mean, 6000 watts is small change compared to the car's overall power-handling capacity when you're going down the road. But the engine needs to turn higher revs to reach the higher power levels. (And going down the road means more airflow for cooling.)

    When the car is just sitting parked and the engine is only cycling to keep the battery charged, the car's firmware doesn't have any rule programmed in to rev up the engine for additional power, because the engineers never thought it'd need to. It just gives you as much as it can while growling along around 1200 RPM, which turns out to be more in the 3000 watt ballpark. 3600 maybe, according to a recent post from Randy.
     
  15. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Dang it was only a $50 consult on the other thread. These guys are offered $100.

    For someone who limits any knowledge about himself your offer may be a hard sell. There is a way but one of several baseline assumptions has to go.

    The fundamental problem is a grid tied inverter is looking for a perfect non-deviating grid waveform that will sink a small to large current. Without that the grid tied inverter shuts down in less than 100ms. Even a powerful 24kw Generac generator can't match the specs needed much less some 12v to 240v inverter full of waveform distortions and frequency shifts.

    Much better to buy the $6,500 Generac for whole house or a $1,500 version with 8.5 kw and a mechanical interlock, both of which far surpass the Prius power backup capability. Leave the Prius for driving unless a 1200 watt 12v to 120v direct to the Prius is enough.