2001 Techstream codes- what am I looking at?

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by C Clay, May 21, 2015.

  1. C Clay

    C Clay Member

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    So I'm back driving the car after 8-12 weeks sitting.

    Symptoms On my 70 mile drive:
    - engine shuttered a little but would go away
    -engine light would flicker, then go away
    -air works, then starts to flash
    -got back in car and Turtle light was on. Now it is off
    -on the 70 mile drive; I saw the battery gauge filled to the top for probably 5-10 mins (isn't that not good?)
    - I think a moment ago when I went out and pulled codes I think the PS light came on, but it is not on now.
    -the hybrid battery fan is running at the start of the engine

    HELP

    - it has a new remanufactured battery with only 70 miles on it
    -it has a new optima battery """"
    -new spark plugs, fuel injectors, MAF sensor, throttle position sensor, and numerous throttle body cleanings.

    Has all of these codes. [​IMG]


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  2. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    There is nothing NEW about a remanufactured/rebuilt HV battery. Rebuilders take working modules from other HV packs, ideally run 3 discharge/recharge cycles on each module, then assemble them into another pack. A "warranty," is oftentimes added to give the victim some peace of mind.

    For greatest longevity/peace of mind/trouble free operation, a NEW HV Pack from Toyota is the way to go. Expensive yes. But too many horror stories from victims who buy rebuilt HV Batteries, and end up spending more than if they had gone with a NEW HV Battery from Toyota.

    Is the Optima fully charged? Should be close to 13V w/ no load. Under a load, should still be above 12; however, the closer to12V a load reading gives, the battery should be changed immediately.

    Is your 2001 a salvage? Were the correct NGK or Nippon Denso, Irridium spark plugs used?

    These DTCs are for a Gen2 Prius; don't know if these would be identical for a Gen1.
    P0172: System Too Rich (Bank 1)
    Injector has leakage or blockage
    Mass air flow meter
    Engine coolant temperature sensor
    Ignition system
    Fuel pressure
    gas leakage in exhaust system
    Open or short in A/F sensor (bank 1 sensor 1) circuit
    A/F sensor (bank 1 sensor 1)
    A/F sensor heater (bank 1 sensor 1)
    EFI M relay (integration relay)
    ECM​

    P0300: Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
    Open or short in engine wire harness
    Connector connection
    Vacuum hose connection
    Ignition system
    Injector
    Fuel pressure
    Mass air flow meter
    Engine coolant temperature sensor
    Compression pressure
    Valve clearance
    Valve timing
    PCV hose connection
    PCV hose
    ECM
    P0301: Cylinder 1 misfire detected
    Same as P0300
    P0304: Cylinder 4 misfire detected
    Same as P0300​

    P0420: Catalyst system efficiency below threshold (Bank1)
    GAs leakage in exhaust system
    A/F sensor (bank 1 sensor1)
    Heated oxygen sensor (bank 1 sensor2)
    Three-way catalytic converter (exhaust manifold)
    P0440: nothing listed

    P0441: Evaporative Emission Control System Incorrect Purge Flow
    Fuel tank cap is incorrectly installed
    Fuel tank cap is cracked or damaged
    Vacuum hose is cracked, blocked, damaged, or disconnected [(1), (2), (3), (4), (5), (6), and (7) in fig 1)] Vaccum diagram needed.
    Open or short in vapor pressure sensor circuit
    Vapor pressure sensor
    Open or short in VSV circuit for EVAP
    VSV for EVAP
    Open or short in VSV circuit for CCV
    VSV for CCV
    Open or short in VSV circuit for pressure switching valve
    VSV for pressure switching valve
    Fuel tank is cracked or damaged
    Charcoal canister s cracked or damaged
    Fuel tank over fill check valve is cracked or damaged
    ECM​

    P0446: Evaporative Emission Control system Vent Control Circuit
    Same as DTC P0441​

    C1202 (there should be subcodes (511 or 512; go back and double click C1202): Brake Fluid Level low/Open circuit in Brake Fluid Level Warning Switch Circuit
    Brake fluid level
    Brake fluid level warning switch
    harness and connector
    Skid Control ECU​

    C1252 (there should be a subcode 130): Hydro-booster pump motor malfunction
    Brake actuator assembly
    C1256 (there should be a subcode 141 or 143): Accumulator Low Pressure Malfunction
    Brake actuator assembly (accumulator pressure, accumulator pressure sensor, pump motor)​
     
  3. C Clay

    C Clay Member

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    Thanks for your help. Your'e kinda starting my weekend Off kind of "Debbie Downer". Do you work at Toyota? Putting a new Toyota battery doesn't seem seem like a smart financial decision given the value of any vehicle that would be the typical age or mileage where you see you are needing a battery does it?

    No this car isn't salvage, but it should be probably.


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  4. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I thought you had earlier decided to sell this car.

    If you have decided to continue to work with its problems, I suggest you go back to basics and check engine compression - regarding the engine misfire issues.

    This requires that you purchase an engine compression gauge with a fitting that will screw into the spark plug holes. Remove the four spark plugs, use Mini VCI and find the software command for engine compression testing so that MG1 will spin the engine at a lower than normal speed, suitable for testing purposes.

    Regarding the rich air/fuel mixture, has the oxygen sensor #1 been replaced yet?
     
  5. C Clay

    C Clay Member

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    Now this is why a guy that can barely turn a wrench comes to Priuschat!

    Thanks Patrick- no, I haven't replaced the oxygen sensor #1, but that can be the next order of business.

    I do have this up for sale, just had the brake line fixed. Just still trying to fix issues. Yesterday is the first time
    Car has been driven for 4 months. I'm not getting any real offers yet




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  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    The misfire DTC are the first ones that need to be addressed.

    I would start by checking engine compression. If it turns out the car has a problem with one or more cylinders, there is no point putting more repair $$$ into the car unless you are willing to first install a used engine.
     
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  7. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    Answers to the laundry list of codes provided free of charge. You're welcome.

    People who know me well, appreciate my candor. It may not be what they want to hear, but its what they need to hear. If you don't appreciate candor, please add me to "People You Ignore," and I will disappear from your PriusChat world.

    I don't work for Toyota. If I did, I would be telling you to get a new Prius, zero percent interest, give you a few dollars towards your Gen1. Then proceed to tell you to see Sales Mgr "John Smith," at "ABC" Toyota Dealer in "Some City", Arkansas.

    You said "New Rebuilt," HV Battery w/ 70 miles. I was just correcting your view of "NEW:" it does not exist with rebuilt HV Batteries. I advocate for NEW HV Batteries for owners who plan to keep their car for some time. There are lots of horror stories of people going the rebuilt/refurbished route, only to later regret it b/c the warranty proved useless and/or the labor of removal and installation of the replacement ran super close to a NEW HV Battery, when factoring the total cost (battery + initial install labor fee + warranty installation labor fee). If multiple refurbished/rebuilt/used replacements were required, these "victims" ended up paying MORE than if they had just gotten a NEW HV Battery; these individuals learned the hard way. It is ultimately your car, money, and time, so do as you please.

    Regarding prudent use of finances to repair a 2001 Prius, or any old car for that matter, make sense to me, if:
    1) I am able to do the repair needed. A ton will be saved on labor costs, as it is now just time. When I replaced the front struts and rear shocks, I saved $800 (Cabe Toyota) or $1000 (Hooman Toyota) on dealer labor, by not going to these two dealership. Independent repair shops and chain repair stores were not that much cheaper either. I enjoy the auto repair challenge and it provides me with some personal satisfaction too.
    2) Is the car in question in acceptable overall shape and mechanically sound, except for the current repair needed.
    3) Cost of the parts needed for repair.
    4) I like: not having car payments, cheap vehicle registration fees, and cheaper insurance. Sure I wouldn't mind a new car, but as long as 1, 2, and 3 make sense to me, I will buy parts and make time for the repairs. Yes, at some point, I will have to throw in the towel.
    5) In the case of an HV Battery, if the current one dies after warranty, but before 220,000 miles, I would still buy a NEW HV Battery. Hopefully by that time, maybe the HV Battery pack will be under $2k. If after 220,00 miles, maybe I will rebuild a Gen3 pack myself using 3 discharge/charge cycles per module.

    Since you don't DIY, you could make this a project car. Assuming you want to personally challenge yourself, have a garage, and have the funds to acquire tools, parts, etc. If you hate working on cars, probably best to get it working, if the repair costs doesn't exceed $500, to maximize the resale value. If repairs exceed $500, cut your losses and sell to a junk yard or someone who wants a project car.
     
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  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The DTC info provided by exstudent from a Gen 2 book is mostly close, but it's most useful to use the manual that matches your car...
    • P0172 (4 pages of workup) mixture too rich (or problem sensing it)
    • P03xx (6 pages of workup) engine misfiring
    • P0420 (3 pages of workup) catalyst efficiency (or problem sensing it)
    • P0440 (6 pages of workup) evap system control malfunction
    • P0441 (6 pages of workup) evap system purge flow (or problem sensing it)
    • C1202 (2 pages of workup) brake fluid level (or problem sensing it)
    • C1252 (7 pages of workup) brake accumulator pump runs too long
    • C1256 (6 pages of workup) low accumulator pressure (or problem sensing it)
    The "pages of workup" here refer to the pages found in volume 1, diagnostics, of tests and decision-tree procedures to systematically rule out possibilities until you know what actual problem you have that is causing each code to show up. They don't include repair procedures (those are in volume 2, and don't matter until you know what needs to be repaired). In other words, it's generally not the case that just having a code tells you what needs to be fixed. Having the code strongly hints you toward a set of workup steps through which you can zero in on what needs to be fixed.

    I haven't tried to do a summary of the relevant 40 pages of workup here in this post, because it could easily turn out that some piece of information I chose to leave out for brevity was key in your specific situation, so it just seems like I'll be giving better advice if I just say, if you want to tackle the diagnosis of any of those issues, there's good information in the manual and you know where to find it.

    Cheers,
    -Chap
     
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  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Chapman did a great summary:
    I suspect the first three are a common fault, the O{2} sensor(s) but they could be due to oil fouling. If the car needs oil, frequently, an engine swap or rebuild it the only alternative as Patrick pointed out.

    The two middle problems could have been induced by over-filling the tank and possibly an air leak. Over-filled tanks can soak to carbon canister and the only solution is replacement. It could also impact mixture. Do this fix first.

    The brake problem can probably be resolved by driving the car around for several miles with frequent brakes. Then buy the right grade of brake fluid and top off the brake fluid tank. The braking is important to make space for the brake fluid. As the pads wear down, slowly, they draw down the fluid.

    GOOD LUCK!
    Bob Wilson
     
  10. C Clay

    C Clay Member

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    Thanks Bob! Next time I drive to East Tennessee I may leave on your doorstep to adopt!


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  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I respectfully dissent ... in my universe, never add fluid to the brake reservoir except immediately after you have:
    1. parked
    2. turned the key OFF
    3. pumped the brake pedal until the feeling abruptly changes and it's rock-hard and barely moves (this is not a subtle change, you can't miss it - takes somewhere between 30 and 40 strokes usually for me - the manual says "more than 40" just to be safe.
    NOW, and only now, you can look at the level in the reservoir and add fluid just up to the MAX line.

    Now, turn the key ON (not START, just ON) and listen for the accumulator pump. By the time it stops, the reservoir level should be somewhat below MAX. That's your normal level for when the normal amount of fluid is stored in the pressure accumulator. (It will also slowly drop further from that level, as the brake pads slowly wear.)

    The reason for that procedure is that in normal operation, the level should be somewhat below MAX just because a bunch of the fluid is stashed away in the accumulator (30 or 40 strokes' worth). Doing your 30 or 40 strokes with the power off returns that fluid to the reservoir so you can read the level correctly. If you top it off while fluid is hidden in the accumulator, you overfill the system.

    Reference: 2001 service manual volume 2, page BR-6:
    To be OCD about it, if you do this any time except when the pads are brand new, you're still adding a bit extra fluid to the system; it will come back a bit above MAX when new pads are installed (unless you're in the "crack bleed screw to push piston back in" camp). But the manual isn't OCD about it, because there's enough extra room in the reservoir for that. They just have you adjust the level back down or up to MAX in step 12 at the very end of the pad replacement procedure. If you're in the "crack bleed screw" camp, you might end up adding a bit of fluid. If you're not, you may end up syringing some back out (if any fluid was ever added) to get it back down to MAX. If the system has never leaked and never had fluid added, putting new pads in will magically put the fluid level exactly back at MAX where it was in the factory.

    -Chap

    Couple extra notes:
    1. The steps given above work in Gen 1. Apparently in Gen 2 and later, the accumulator pump can run even with the ignition off, so you could pump forever in step 3 (or at least until the 12 V battery dies) and never feel the brakes get hard. So in those later generations, you actually have to pull relays for the pump first.
    2. Because CClay has C1202 and C1252, suggesting all is not well with the pump or accumulator, it's possible the pedal might already be hard and the fluid is already in the reservoir. It's also possible after turning the key back ON, the pump will run and not stop. (By the way, CClay, do you know the sound of your accumulator pump when it's running? When it runs, how long typically before it stops?)
     
    #11 ChapmanF, May 23, 2015
    Last edited: May 23, 2015
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  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Chapman is right but I was in a hurry.

    I knew the level was low because the brake light would flash on a hard turn. It had been doing this for years mostly in cool weather. But a couple of months ago, I started seeing it on straights after having tapped the brake. Yet the next morning, the level looked OK.

    So on the way into work, I picked up a can of brake fluid specified in the owner's manual. I continued into work using "N" to brake and sure enough, the level was now low. I added the fluid to the fill line and tossed the sealed can in the trash into work. No more brake light events.

    Chapman's technique is much better than my ad hoc. Good, fast, cheap: this was fast and cheap.

    Bob Wilson
     
  13. C Clay

    C Clay Member

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    This may sound like a dumb question- but what is mean by "Current Conf" ..."Pending" .... and "History". I'm assuming "Current.." means that is a current code? Could those brake related codes be from before the brake line repairs?

    I followed through with something a little difficult to do before now... drain the oil because I did notice it was slightly above the full line. I cleaned the mass air flow sensor.. and I drove for 50 miles yesterday with only code P0172 from my scanguage.

    The only noticeable performance issues I am experiencing is that this vibrating will rear its ugly head when turning. I've researched this somewhat and have read this could be several issues. I can see the service history and see that some recall work was done. Service history says...." replaced pinion nuts...". Isn't that the source of some of this shuttering user's experienced?

    Then I also found this:

    I have a 2001 Toyota Prius and the steering wheel shakes violently. Sometimes the PS light comes on. Can someone help me? (Steering Toyota Prius Suspension)
     
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    <embarressed>You've raised a good point. It is important to clear the codes and then drive the car to find out which codes come back. They are not time-stamped so we clear an codes found 'on the car' and then address the others.

    Also, anyone who replaced a brake line should have handled 'bleeding the air' out and making sure there is enough fluid. I was sharing what I did the last time I topped off. If you are not seeing the 'brake' light, It would be right to clear the code and see what comes back.</embarressed>

    A lot of things can cause vibration on a turn including worn tires, alignment, wheel bearings, a missing lug (raises hand) and even worn CVTs. Use the tire tool to make sure the lug nuts are on securely. With the car parked and the wheels turned, look and feel the inner and outer treads to see if there is unusual tire wear.

    I've got to scamper into work but tread depth is measured in 1/32 inch units. The limit is 3/32 but you can also check the wear strips. These are places that wear down first and show a spot where there is no tread. Google should find plenty of examples and how to evaluate tire wear patterns.

    I bought a 'life-time' alignment' service from Firestone for each Prius. I used it two weeks ago to get a steering instability fixed.

    Bob Wilson
     
  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I'm wondering if you had an iffy seal in the system somewhere, so that overnight the accumulator pressure would drop and the fluid return to the reservoir. That would explain the level looking higher first thing in the morning. Probably, it was accompanied by a longer-than-normal pump operating sound when you first turned the key on in the morning, to shift all that fluid back into the accumulator again. (Though if it had been that way a long time, it could have sounded normal to you.)

    Probably when you saw it first thing in the morning and "the level looked OK," it was sitting somewhere between MIN and MAX which normally would be OK, but if really all the accumulator contents had returned to the reservoir overnight, then those really would have been the correct conditions for checking the level, and it should have been right at MAX.

    Of course, we don't know if all the accumulator contents went back or just some ... so the best way to account for those variables is to just pump the brakes with the key OFF until the assist is all used up, and then you know exactly what level to be looking for.

    The change in pedal feel when you use up the last of the assist pressure is really completely unmissable. You get a rhythm going with your foot for those 30 or 40 pedal strokes, and the last ones are like gish, gish, gish, gish, gish, gish, gish, gish, BAM! and then you can hop to the front of the car on your good foot and check the level with complete confidence.

    -Chap
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The brakes worked fine and I drove for years with just the occasional 'brake' light flash in cold weather in a hard turn. At this point, the original symptoms are gone and I'm a happy camper. <GRINS>

    Bob Wilson
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    It would be helpful if you could say something more descriptive about the vibrating. Is it something you feel chiefly in the steering wheel, and while making turns at especially low speeds, as when parking or unparking? If so, is it really a rapid twisting of the wheel back and forth (i.e., in the way a steering wheel usually turns, not just, say, the whole thing shivering up and down, or something)? Like the wheel quickly twisting itself back and forth in your hands at about the speed of a wet dog shaking? Does it tend to dampen out pretty quickly if you just improve your grip on the wheel, but if you completely let go when a good one gets going, it might just sit there and shake itself for a second or more (giving itself away as a powered phenomenon)?

    IF it is like that, then you're seeing the well-known steering gear torque sensor failure. The steering gear is one of several bits of the car built with a certain kind of electrical sensor that can get noisy over time, causing weird things to happen, depending on which sensor is involved. When it's the steering sensor, this is the weird thing that happens. :)

    With all of the other similar sensors in the car, people have been routinely just taking them apart and cleaning the surfaces that get noisy, putting them back together, and calling it good. That hasn't been happening as much with the steering gear, just because it's a lot harder job. First the steering gear itself has to be disconnected from the wheel knuckles and suspension and steering column, and lowered out of the car, and then even once you're looking at it on the bench, until recently there was little published information on how you could take it apart to get to the torque sensor, in a way that wouldn't destroy it so you could put it back together.

    Therefore, solutions along two lines have mostly been explored:
    1. Replace the whole steering rack with a good one. This is the GOOD and FAST solution. It's what Toyota will do. They were doing it for free up through 31 December 2013, but that ship has now sailed. Now it is not cheap, because the part itself is four figures and, as you could guess from my description above, the labor isn't minor. It is also possible to get a remanufactured unit; Cardone sells one. (Clearly, that means somebody at Cardone did figure out how to take the thing apart and get to the torque sensor, but they didn't share that information with PriusChat.) Simply putting in a used rack could be a cheaper option, but a risky one: with that much labor involved, it would be no fun to put in a used rack and find it has the same problem already, or develops it soon.
    2. Bob Wilson has been the chief proponent of a repair technique that might work electrically without needing any labor besides access to the wires right behind the glove box. It hasn't been tried a lot and so far the results seem a bit equivocal.
    We've been working on learning more about the electrical properties of the sensor, which could lead to a couple of benefits: it might help guide improvements to the easy repair procedure Bob is interested in; it might also provide rules of thumb for testing a salvage rack with a simple multimeter to decide whether it's worth buying.

    In the process of trying to do that, I finally did break down and buy the cheapest used rack I could find, just to try whether I could figure out how it comes apart and get to the torque sensor. It turns out I could, and while it's a bit of a delicate, several-step process, it's not really too bad.

    Ironically, since then, I haven't had any time to get back to making the more precise electrical measurements, which were really the purpose of taking it apart in the first place. I'll get back to it eventually. But at least we do now have published information on how it comes apart, so if anybody facing the problem just wanted to clean and reassemble the sensor, there is now the possibility of doing that ... it's just a much more labor intensive, longer and more mechanically involved, version of doing the same thing with the other similar sensors on the car.

    -Chap
     
  18. C Clay

    C Clay Member

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    No not at all I don't think. It is more of a shutter in maybe the steering column or engine if I had to guess.

    It didn't seem to matter the speed- it just seemed to that if the car was turning... and you were giving the gas...even on cruise at 30 mph... you would get a shutter that usually went away if you backed off the accelerator followed by going straight again.

    So there's an update. I backed out my drive way today and I could start to feel the shutter as a went in reverse for maybe 10 yards. I went to a stop sign, turned left and drove probably 500 yards with 2 90 degree turns and the card was indeed shuttering lightly and the master warning light and hybrid system warning light came on. I stopped and turned ignition off, then restarted. Lights still on but car is driving fine to church.

    Left church and drove about 5 miles then hooked up scan guage. P0172, P3190, P0300, and P0304. I reset the codes and was going to drive this car through its paces to attempt to give you more specific info on how and where it shutters. So I'm out to prove when it shutters. Seemed to shutter on turns and never on straight-a-ways in the last 3 days (the only days I've had it driveable since January remember.) I'm at a red light about to turn right 90 degrees and up a hill. I let her rip at 2500-3000 rpm thinking, " I want to definitively figure out when this shutters or vibrates." NOTHING HAPPENS.

    I find another 90 degree turn to left. Slow down, go through the turn revving it up to the same rpm. Nothing. Drive all over town up hills, down hills, stops, all freezing because max air is on (trying to figure out why that turns off also).
    In 50 miles I can't reproduce anything. I don't normally drive like that. I'm pretty easy on accelerating actually, just something you learned when you were a teen because you thought the car you had would explode. P0172 came back, but nothing else.

    Prius gods- what gremlin entered this car where it shuttered to a stop for nearly 5 months where it stayed parked and I couldn't get it to go? Has the gremlin left? Mechanically, it feels from the driver's seat very similar to a post I had from last summer I at first couldn't get the car to start, then when it did it shuttered like &&^*! Tires have about 20,000 miles on them. It was aligned then also. It's not that kind of vibration.



    Can I add another little thing I've noticed on my interstate drives that could be related (although nothing can be reproduced today for some reason?). When driving on the interstate, I feel a slight release (I don't know if i'm explaining this right) of the steering and while the direction of the wheels seem not to change, it almost seems like I had to adjust the steering wheel slightly to adjust. Made me want to hold the steering wheel with both hands let me tell ya!
     
    #18 C Clay, May 24, 2015
    Last edited: May 24, 2015
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