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2002, 152K miles. Check Engine Light after long stop and go traffic jam on the side of a mountain.

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by elendilmir, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. elendilmir

    elendilmir Member

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    I was driving my trusty '02 today, and came into a very long and very slow traffic jam on the side of a mountain. After about two hours of mostly stop and very little go, my CEL light came on. I am also seeing the "general fault" symbol, but it should be noted that my PS symbol has been showing for about a year because my PS died and I just didn't fix it.

    I drove it back home (about 20 miles), with no issues. I parked it and restarted it with no issues. I am taking it to autozone to get the faults read, but would appreciate any advice.
     
  2. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    The CEL can mean dozens of things. Can be as simple as gas cap not tight, bad O2 sensor, bad MAF, bad CAT. Once you get the codes post them here. Then you can get useful answers.
     
  3. elendilmir

    elendilmir Member

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    Thanks, 3PRONGPAUL. I got 'em right here:
    P3130- Inverter cooling system
    P0300 - Random Misfire
    P0301 - Misfire Cyl 1
    P0302 - Misfire Cyl 2
    P0303 - Misfire Cyl 3
    P0304 - Misfire Cyl 4

    The car has driven about 30 miles since with no real problems.
    I was stuck driving about 1-3 mph for very short distances with 5-10 mins of parking between them for about two hours. To make it worse, I was on the uphill side of mountain for most of it. I could see the electric motor working double time under those circumstances and the coolant getting really hot. I could also see the misfire when the gas engine finally kicked in. To make matters more complicated, I am scheduled for a 150K checkup in the next few weeks. I usually take it to the dealership for the 50K services. Should I consider taking it to a 3d party garage and just having him swap out the coolant so that I don't get hosed at the dealership?
     
  4. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    If your car still has the original "black bracket" electric coolant pump you should change it to the "new & improved design". See Inverter Coolant Leak - need help (Pics) | PriusChat

    Make sure whoever installs it properly bleeds the inverter cooling system.

    I recommend any Gen1 over 100k miles to change out this pump since it keeps the inverter electronics and transaxle cool...both of which can get damaged if they overheat.

    The misfire errors may go away by themselves, but if spark plugs are old you should replace them or at least remove the ignition coils and check the plugs are snug...one car I came across had one spark plug unscrewed, guy was driving around on 3 cylinders.
     
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  5. elendilmir

    elendilmir Member

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    Wow. I had no idea about the new coolant pump. THAT is the kind of thing that keeps me coming back to this site.

    I'm leaning toward having the pump changed anyway since the car is going into the shop anyway, and throw in some new plugs to boot, since I have no idea when they were last swapped out. Plugs are cheaper than misfires. And I've been putting off buying a scanguage II, which if I am not mislead will let me monitor coolant temp. Looks like Christmas is coming late for my '02. Is the new pump something that I can buy for the same price at the dealership, or are they going to rob me bloody?

    How much should I be panicking about the cooling system error? I figure that if there was a full blown leak, I would have had real problems by now, but I don't want to do any further damage.
     
  6. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I'm not sure what that would buy you. As long as the coolant in the inverter loop is still there, and pink, and wet, I don't think it's going to shout "problem!" to the dealership in any way. Are you thinking it's just due for a change anyway? When was it last changed?

    Might be worth looking at related possibilities though. As 3pp pointed out, the inverter coolant pump can fail. Do you see flow in the inverter coolant reservoir when the key is ON? (You should be able to see the fluid level a couple cm higher at the front of the reservoir where the return hose goes in, compared to the rear of the reservoir where the fluid's pumped out. If the pump runs, do you hear any unusual noise? It's near the left-hand headlight, and should be very quiet, just a steady hum. Any 'fry'/'sizzle'/'squelch' noises could be bubbles of air circulating that need to be bled out.

    Is anything blocking the radiators (either the big one for the engine, or the smaller inverter-loop radiator down in front of that)? Are a lot of the fins bonked over, restricting airflow?

    In normal driving, natural airflow tends to be enough for cooling. Stop-and-go depends on the fans. Do you see the fans run? They should start immediately if you turn on air conditioning and the compressor runs. They should also start, even without A/C, if the engine coolant reaches 90 C (IIRC ... maybe it's 95). It takes patience to test that because "idle until temp reaches 90 C" takes just short of forever. It helps to watch the temp with a ScanGauge so you can at least see how slowly it's going up and you won't give up before it gets there.

    I don't remember off the top of my head whether the inverter-loop temperature is also capable of starting the fans - seems like it should be, in case you're in stop-and-go where the engine isn't running much. But I don't have the books in front of me.

    The fans have both a low and a high speed, which should really both be checked. (Without the books in front of me I don't remember what conditions you'd need to create to trigger high speed - maybe engine temp > 90 C plus air conditioning would do it.) I could imagine a tough-to-diagnose, only-happens-in-the-worst-conditions puzzle if the fan circuit had just the right problem to work fine on low but not to run on high.

    Changing the subject, in what way did your power steering die? If it was the usual issue with glitchy torque sensor inputs, you only have 367 days left to get it fixed for free.

    -Chap
     
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  7. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    Check the level of the inverter coolant resevoir before you drive the car any further. It's the skinny white/yellow plastic reservoir towards the drivers side near the center of the car..up near the window wiper tray and against the inverter. You should see reddish coolant between min and max fill lines.

    You may got shocked (pun intended) at what the dealer charges for sparkplugs. Not that hard to replace yourself.
    Only $9 each at Advance Auto for the exact same Denso plugs the dealer sells (but not in a Red Toyota box)
    Denso SK16R11 part number 3324
     
  8. elendilmir

    elendilmir Member

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    The coolant level seems normal, but I didn't see movement when I turned the key. How long should that take? If that isn't temp related I might have found a problem, if not THE problem.

    The check engine light is now off as well.
     
  9. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The inverter coolant pump should be continuously running whenever the key is ON. If it isn't, you've found a good candidate for your problem. It's been reported in this forum that the pumps are likely to fail with age.

    -Chap
     
  10. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    Movement should be right away when key is ON position.
    Take cover of reservoir and look inside while key is ON. It is safe to remove the cap and look inside if the car is not moving.

    Take a long screwdriver or similar and hold it against the pump (under near drivers headlight). Do you feel it vibrating and/or hear it? If not, pump is toast.

    Pump could also be working but poorly.
    New pump should have considerably more flow. Make a mental note of how much flow you see now and after pump is changed. If you have a smartphone shoot a video to compare.
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The pump has failed. Normal operation there is a barrier and you can see the two levels. With the cap off, you can see the turbulence. . . . Get it fixed before the next long trip or warm weather returns.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  12. elendilmir

    elendilmir Member

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    Yup. It's dead as a doornail. It's in the shop now getting fixed as part of it's 150K mile servicing. I figured as long as the coolant is being replaced, now is as good of a time as any to get the pump changed out as well.