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2002 Don't know who to trust

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Pristina, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. Avi's Advanced Automotive

    Avi's Advanced Automotive Independent hybrid repair shop

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    The last P3009 I repaired also had the service performed. This particular car had the problem show up intermittently over a long period of time. It had been in and out of the dealer and the owner got tired of them not finding anything. He brought it to my shop from 62 miles away. I was able to pinpoint it to the battery and proceeded to find corrosion in there.
    IMAG0585.jpg IMAG0596.jpg
    It is possible you knocked some of it off when you were in there and temporarily fixed your problem.
    Yes, but only after you change the fluid and the p3009 comes back.
     
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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Very interesting:
    Were you able to find a correlation of module voltages and degree of corrosion? I've long suspected that corrosion, the evidence of KOH leakage, should eventually cause a mismatch of module voltages.

    Was the customer with this battery living in one of the hilly areas? Any unusual driving characteristics by that customer? My module bench testing as well as forced charge during hot weather and metrics from descending hills shows these modules are sensitive to temperatures and charge-inducing heating. So I recommend those driving in hilly areas, 500 ft and 8% grades, use "B" on descents to minimize heating.

    I very much appreciate the photos and somehow had not noticed the 'pot metal' on the buss bar plastic housing. So I had been thinking the resistance path was from the terminals to the base. But now I'm starting to think the pot-metal liner around the buss bar plastic might pay a larger role. A funny thing about photos, they often reveal details not found in an initial inspection, thanks!

    Bob Wilson
     
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  3. Pristina

    Pristina Junior Member

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    I got the fluid changed yesterday. He said the 2 codes went away but there was another subcode having to do with fuel/air ratio. I did not remember at the time to get the number from him. Probably won't be able to dig into that more until I get my own scanner. Would that be because I topped it off twice before I knew not to, or is it unrelated?

    When he looked at it the first time, the check engine light went off because he probably reset the codes. It didn't come back until this morning, which really freaked me out. All of the other lights have stayed on throughout this whole process.
     
  4. Pristina

    Pristina Junior Member

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    Were you able to find a correlation of module voltages and degree of corrosion? I've long suspected that corrosion, the evidence of KOH leakage, should eventually cause a mismatch of module voltages.

    I very much appreciate the photos and somehow had not noticed the 'pot metal' on the buss bar plastic housing. So I had been thinking the resistance path was from the terminals to the base. But now I'm starting to think the pot-metal liner around the buss bar plastic might pay a larger role. A funny thing about photos, they often reveal details not found in an initial inspection, thanks!

    Bob Wilson[/quote]

    The mechanic who looked at my battery said there was corrosion, but said he could not see any leakage/corrosion. Is leakage just worse corrosion or where the fluid has actually "exploded" from the cell?
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    The corrosion is common enough and indicates the modules got 'hot' one day with significant gas pressure. The "O" rings around the B+ terminal can weaken when heated and under internal pressure to let out a small amount of KOH electrolyte. This is the stuff that attacks the metal and causes corrosion.

    This is why "heat is the enemy" and anything we can do to minimize heating the traction battery is a 'good thing.'

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. Pristina

    Pristina Junior Member

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    Hello. First of all, I want to just thank everyone so much for their generous input and attention to questions I have had over time. It has really meant so much to me and calmed my nerves to know I am not alone.

    An update:
    I did have the ATF fluid exchange as mentioned. The warning lights are still on in my car. However, I have decided not to take any more action at this time since the car is running well. I will modify my approach as needed.

    Take care!
     
  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    An excellent decision which will allow you to extract more value from your car without incurring further expense. Good luck with your Prius.
     
  8. Pristina

    Pristina Junior Member

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    Thank you again!
     
  9. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    Thanks for keeping us updated. Good luck with it.
     
  10. Pristina

    Pristina Junior Member

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    Sure, thanks again for all of your help!! Surely I will recruit your wisdom again.
     
  11. Pristina

    Pristina Junior Member

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    Avi, I need your help. I feel like a complete whackadoo with this one, since it is surely past accident related. Those always make me feel like an idiot. But I really need to fix it, low cost, since it is just plain annoying.
    My car is leaking!!!
    I thought it was a bad seal on the rear windshield. Someone who works for a collision-glass company inspected it and told me it wasn't. He ran a hose on the roof and told me it was the sunroof. I closed it as best as I could and propped it up on the low corner. Today there was a really hard rain, as there usually is at least once a day in FL summertime, and the seeping happened again. That which I used to prop up that corner was not saturated! Do you think it is just in general the whole weather seal needing to replaced since it is old? Can I just do that myself?
    Location of the internal leak: right above the rear-passenger window, to the bottom right of the handle right there. It seems that water pools right inside the headliner, which causes it to drop down onto the back seat a bit as well as run along the panel between the seat and the door for a nice puddle on the rear passenger floor. Also, there are some little pokey things right inside the headliner there. Do you think one of the sunroof drains is possibly plugged or that there could be a hole rusted out in there due to lack of attention on the matter before I owned it?
    Thank you soooo much.
     
  12. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    ^^^
    That's not good. If this is still on your 02 Prius, it sounds like someone decided to modify it w/an aftermarket sunroof. :( It might be problematic/troublesome to get parts for it/fix it.

    AFAIK, NO 1st gen Prius ever had a sunroof as an option. Certainly no 2nd gen ever had it available as option. It only became a choice w/the 3rd gen (ZVW30 aka 2010+ liftback).
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    We need pictures . . . of the car area involved. Meanwhile, head over to Lowes or a good hardware store and get some exterior duct-tape. You really need to stop the water invasion even if a crappy, duct tape patch is used.

    I'm sorry but this won't be easy.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. Pristina

    Pristina Junior Member

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    Yes I know. The sunroof was put in aftermarket in '02, per a sticker in my glovebox. Plus, I have no desire to overpay for the repair. That's why I'm hoping I can replace the weather stripping myself and prop it up. After all, mechanical takes priority!! And we all know where I'm at on that.
    I just need to foster it to prevent leaking at this point. There is a lot of water coming in.
     
  15. Pristina

    Pristina Junior Member

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    Will do, tomorrow. I figured that might be helpful.
     
  16. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    When a friend of mine sold her old Honda Accord (which I knew little about and she bought used long ago) to a Honda dealer, the salesman identified that her sunroof was aftermarket. I don't think she knew. The Honda guy expressed reservations about it since he said if it leaked, he wouldn't (or might not ?) be able to get parts for it...
     
  17. Pristina

    Pristina Junior Member

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    All is true in my case. Toyota has already said they don't want to mess with it.
     
  18. Avi's Advanced Automotive

    Avi's Advanced Automotive Independent hybrid repair shop

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    True
    That's what I would suggest for now.

    As far as fixing it permanently, I would say, if you wan't it to open, try to contact the company on the sticker, if you are okay with it never opening again, see if a windshield installer can seal it up using the sealer they use ti install windshields. Pictures might give us a better idea though.

    Avi
     
  19. scotman27

    scotman27 Active Member

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    You can even get some clear silicon and a caulk gun from lowes, homedepot or whatnot, put a small bead of that around the gasket of the window and then wet your finger and run it over the silicone to smooth it out and make it look professional. about a 15-20 min job. what you can also do and I would recommend first is to take packing tape and cover up where the sunroof window and the outter part of it meet. take a hose and spray around there and see if the leak is coming from in between the roof of the car and the sunroof itself, if it leaks silicon that part of it. if no leaks remove the tape and cover where the roof of the car and the outter part of the sunroof come together. and spray around the window itself, if it leaks then your leak is coming from the window and not the sunroof itself. you may be able to take it to a glass place and get a gasket made for it or you can try to silicon around where the gasket attaches to the window. I am thinking that it is leaking between the roof of the car and the sunroof.

    let us know.
     
  20. Pristina

    Pristina Junior Member

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    Thank you for the ideas. I spoke with the company today who installed it 10 years ago. They sent me to a website that has service techs and installers they recommend. Since they were closed when I got off work, I have to try them tomorrow morning. He said if the sunroof has never been serviced, and I'm assuming it hasn't, that it probably is leaking and described what is visibly happening. He said to service it if no parts are needed will be about $200. That sounds reasonable to me and I should find out more when I speak with the local tech in the morning. Thank you for the advice and if I can't get their help at a decent rate I will start working at it myself.

    Will keep posting...