2002 Stalls after starting, not able to accelerate

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by beth524, May 26, 2015.

  1. beth524

    beth524 Junior Member

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    This evening, after not driving my car for a couple of days, I tried to start it and got the check engine light, triangle with exclamation point, and car symbol with exclamation point. It seemed to start, then shuddered and stalled. I was able to get it going by immediately putting it in drive and driving before it had a chance to stall. Then while driving, stepping on the accelerator did nothing- like no gas was getting through yet the car was still moving ahead. I quickly returned home and checked Prius Chat for advice.

    I checked the throttle body, which was not stuck, but did see a tiny pool of oil in the bottom. I then started it in the driveway and the tiny pool of oil disappeared and it stayed running. I then took it out for another drive and it ran fine and accelerated normally.

    All the warning lights are still on though, and I will try and get the codes read tomorrow or the next day. Any thoughts? Thanks!
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Your car probably will have logged DTC P3190 or P3191 (low engine power, engine no-start.)

    In that case, clean the throttle plate and throttle body interior. Make sure you do not contaminate the mass air flow sensor during this process. If the MAF sensor is dirty, remove it and clean using MAF sensor spray.
     
  3. beth524

    beth524 Junior Member

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    Thanks Patrick! The MAF looks dirty. Can I remove it just by removing the 2 phillips screws on housing of it or is it necessary to remove entire piece that holds air filter? Also, is the little puddle of oil when engine is cold a problem? Oil is right at full mark and guys at Monro refused to remove any oil.
     
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  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Yes, you can just remove the sensor assembly with the two phillips screws. You should also have mass airflow sensor cleaner (no other kind of cleaner) on hand.

    There is a little amber bulb you can clearly see sticking out, that looks like the MAF sensor, but it's really only the intake air temperature sensor, which is part of the same assembly. The real MAF sensor is a couple very fine wires that you can only see if you turn the assembly around in your hand until you can see deep into a small air passage running through it. Those are the wires you want to hit with the stream of MAF cleaner. Other than that, don't touch them with anything.

    -Chap
     
  5. C Clay

    C Clay Member

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    I would drain the oil to midway between the marks on the dipstick. You can see my posts on here I have some very similar issues. I just cleaned the MAF and drained the oil after finding it had been filled slightly above the mark and I have had very positive results. Maybe coincidental. There are some solid contributors to this forum. Follow their suggestions.


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  6. beth524

    beth524 Junior Member

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    Thanks for the replies. I am also wondering, do you think I should just replace the MAF rather than clean it? the car has 110,000 miles and it has never been replaced. Or does the cleaning spray work just as well?
    I will drain some oil out myself. I was so annoyed after I had the oil changed and saw that the level was right at the top mark- I had asked them to slightly underfill it. They would not do it and said it was "against the law" to not fill the oil to the top even if the customer requested it!
     
  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Start with the MAF cleaner spray which should cost <$10. There is no reason to replace the MAF sensor unless it has actually failed. Remove the two screws for MAF sensor removal.

    While the sensor is out, inspect the rubber O-ring on the base of the stem that inserts into the air cleaner housing, which provides an air-tight seal to the housing. Make sure the O-ring is in good condition. If there is any damage then buy a new O-ring from your local Toyota dealer's parts counter. You do not need air to be leaking in around the sensor.

    I would say it is not necessary to drain the engine oil at this time, if the level is at the top dimple on the dipstick. First try cleaning the MAF sensor and then see what happens.

    I also would not be concerned about a slight pool of oil at the bottom of the intake manifold. Some of it may come from the PCV hoses and some may actually be unburnt gasoline which has come up from the intake manifold. Since the Prius engine runs on the Atkinson cycle, the compression stroke starts while the intake valves are still open, which forces a fraction of the air/fuel mixture within the cylinder back into the intake manifold.
     
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  8. C Clay

    C Clay Member

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    How can you determine if it has actually failed?


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  9. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    The engine ECU logs a DTC directly associated with the MAF sensor.

    For example, P0100, P0102 or P0103 which relates to the mass air flow sensor circuit being open or shorted; P0101 where the air flow reported by the sensor does not make sense given the throttle position and engine speed; or P0110, P0112 or P0113 where the air temperature sensor which is part of the MAF sensor has an open or short.

    These codes are rare. Usually the issue is that the MAF sensor gets coated with dirt (due to inadequate air filtration), hence the engine ECU is not able to properly control the air/fuel mixture and the engine therefore displays poor power or a no-start.
     
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  10. beth524

    beth524 Junior Member

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    Funny, this morning when I started the car to go buy the cleaning spray, there were no warning lights on and the car drove fine. So I did not look at any codes.
    I will still remove and clean the MAF and clean the throttle, since I have never done it. My local Toyota dealer does not sell the O ring- it comes with the sensor, so I am hoping my O ring is fine. Glad you suggested not draining the oil.
    The pollen here is insane, and my car sits outside. Everything is coated with a fine dust of yellow. I wonder if that could have had something to do with the car not starting/ sticky throttle, etc.
    Thanks again, wonderful Prius Chat people.
     
  11. C Clay

    C Clay Member

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    That is awesome news! Read some of my posts on this forum and you will find I have the same thing going on with my car… Runs fine… Runs poorly or not at all… Runs fine. I will just make a comment to add on to Paul's post above… I did get a remanufactured battery… And it has been replaced twice under warranty. Prior to needing that battery replacement I never had any of this intermittent trouble with the car.


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  12. beth524

    beth524 Junior Member

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    Its a crazy ride with this car! I had the hybrid battery replaced under warranty at around 65000 miles. I am so thankful for Prius Chat though, as my local dealer is pretty clueless and I was the one who brought many things to their attention based on advice from here (like the battery issue, ECU replacement, oil overfilling, etc). Hopefully this latest issue is just due to dirty throttle plate and MAF sensor. Good luck to you too.
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    On a third start, the indicator lights go away but the codes remain in memory. This suggests the problem is intermittent.

    I recommend clearing the codes anyway. That way you'll not have 'stale' codes hanging around that might lead to a 'cleared while testing' non-fault.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Clear codes how Bob? I remember taking the 12 volt battery out for a time, but I forgot:eek:

    I remember though that the MAF sensor is very fragile, so y'all be gentle there.

    Usta be a Mercedes M180 engine in my life. Two carbs. I balanced their air flow with a research grade MAF, Cost about a zillion bucks. Boss said "sure you can borrow it. Break it and buy me a new one"
     
  15. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Well, that is not helping the situation. Look at the engine air filter when you work on the car, and replace it if you cannot see light through the paper element as you hold it up to the sun.
     
  16. shagpal

    shagpal Junior Member

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    I had same situation. code was P3191. I cleaned TB and MAF, thinned the motor oil down with lower viscosity oil and bled out motor oil below fill line, but still got the same code on cold starts.

    turned out that after not driving it a while, the 12v aux battery was losing charge and dying. replaced the aux battery, have not had the code since.
     
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  17. C Clay

    C Clay Member

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    These stories give me hope! Great job!


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  18. gen1tom

    gen1tom Junior Member

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    This sounds almost exactly like what has been happening recently with my 2002: while driving, the accelerator suddenly does nothing... and the car gradually loses power and stops... (showing the triangle and the car symbol with the exclamation point). Usually the vehicle will restart and drive normally. I was surprised last week, however, when i restarted the vehicle and the gas engine was idling nicely-- but it wouldn't respond to the accelerator (even though the gas engine continued to idle). That has only happened once... every other time, after the vehicle restarted, the accelerator functioned normally. Any ideas as to why that happened? All explanations will be appreciated.​
     
  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    There are two well known (here) conditions:
    • cold-start fails - engine turns over for ~10 seconds and stops with alarms. Second attempt often works for a while. The frequent cause is a sticky throttle plate which can be solved by cleaning. Mr Google can find many sources.
    • "big hand" - the car slows to about 25 mph as if a big hand is holding the car back. It is due to 'noisy' accelerator encoder and can be fixed by cleaning or replacing. Again, Mr Google can find many sources.
    These are distinct problems with separate resolutions.

    GOOD LUCK!
    Bob Wilson
     
  20. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Safely remote, I can clam that gen1tom @18 has an accel pedal potentiometer no longer living up to its potential.

    Both Bob W and I used to fix these, but have moved on to lesser things.
     
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