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2006 CEL question

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by zytra, May 12, 2016.

  1. zytra

    zytra Junior Member

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    Thanks Jad! this is going to be extremely helpful when I start on this tomorrow.
    A few random questions:
    * how long to go from step 1 to step 16, typically?
    * your step 1 is to put the battery on a cart - and later you say the battery is connected to the ECU. Does that mean that the ECU is part of the battery assembly/case?
    * you mentioned a 1/4" torque wrench. I have a 3/8"... any reason (size, range, etc.) you specified a 1/4". By the way what should these module nuts be torqued at?
     
  2. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    I don't care for these instructions. I respect the effort and intent, but I prefer a lot less narration and simple instructions. Also, flipping the pack like a pancake while the base is still attached is not fun and not necessary.

    Disclaimer: You could die doing this. Do so at your own risk.

    Here's what I do:
    1. Remove case cover
    2. Remove rubber vent hoses off top.
    3. Remove black plastic covers from bus bars (BE CAREFUL!)
    4. Remove nuts and bus bars.
    5. Remove two main power cables from relays.
    6. Disconnect inlet air temp sensor from far end of pack (needle-nose, pull up and twist while preventing mounting tab from moving and unfasten hooks holding wire to bar.
    7. Disconnect everything from the ECU/coil
    8. Remove ECU bay (3 nuts and a few connectors). Carefully lift the bottom of the foam spacers to clear the cables.
    9. Remove two nuts holding plastic clamps to base at two opposite corners.
    10. Stand pack on non-ECU end facing the bottom.
    11. Remove all mounting screws from bottom of case
    12. Remove bottom of case
    13. Note installation location and routing of wires and remove temp sensor harness CAREFULLY lifting tabs with tiny screwdriver. Remove harness and black snap-on plastic pieces as a single unit.
    14. Now you have all your modules clamped between the two plastic ends.
    15. Flip clamped modules to other end (now sitting on ECU end)
    16. Remove 4 bolts securing top clamp
    17. Remove/rearrange/replace modules as you see fit.
    This seems like a lot of effort, but it's WAY easier than futzing around with trying to insert a module. Tear down takes about 15-20 minutes with an impact driver if you take your time. I'll try to video it next time.

    You also build the pack back up vertically in the same manner. make sure you get the orientation right. The inlet temp sensor mounting tab will be at the top during build-up. When you're ready to tighten the clamp bolts to solid height, lay the pack flat so you don't get any twist.

    Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
     
  3. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    modules nuts and relay nuts, 48 in-lb. If your 3/8 goes that low, it's fine.
     
  4. zytra

    zytra Junior Member

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    thanks guys. Just watch the video for taking the battery out and other than for the removal of the ducts from the right side, there isn't much more work than for installing the charger harness. The video didn't show how to hold, lift and carry the battery out - just wondering about handling it safely, you know where to told it from.
     
  5. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Wear gloves so you don't get cut from the sharp metal edges.....and get help lifting it out, it's a heavy piece of metal
     
  6. zytra

    zytra Junior Member

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    what are these black pieces (one long piece) that clips on top of the modules in this video? are they air ducts for cooling?
    the Buses on each side are what wire the modules together, right?
     
  7. zytra

    zytra Junior Member

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    and another question, sorry, making sure I get all my questions answered before I start working on this.
    safety wise, the real hazard is up until the bus bars have been removed on one side, correct?

    and as you do take those buses bars off, the tool will be exposed to high voltage. so shouldn't it make sense to start taking those bus bars from the first module's ground and alternate side? so that you always work with roughly 7.2 V?
     
  8. zytra

    zytra Junior Member

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    this one video at around 13:10 or so has a shot of one side before removal of the buses. I see the 2 main power cables which surprisingly are in the middle of the pack. These are taken off the modules at the same time as the bus bars I suppose, right?

     
  9. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    Vent hoses. Modules have a blow-off valve if pressure gets too high. The vent hoses direct the gas outside the car.

    The bus bars are the copper pieces that connect all the modules together in series.

    For the love of all things holy, PLEASE do not mimic what that guy is doing in that video.

    Those are not the two main power cables. Those go to the safety interlock switch. When you install the safety plug, you complete the circuit in that location as if another bus bar were there. When the safety plug is out, the pack is "split" at that location, i.e., the serial connection is interrupted. The main power cables are on the other side of the battery, one at each end and connect to the relays as described in my dissassembly instructions.

    Yes, they are removed just like the bus bars.
     
  10. zytra

    zytra Junior Member

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    thanks for all the help. Battery's on a cart. As soon as I have a couple hours I'll get started.
     
  11. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    You do this stuff for a living apparently S Keith. For me, it's only a hobby. The instructions were intended for zytra since it seems he needs all the help he can get. Next time I'll send him instructions in a private conversation so you won't be bothered reading and critiquing mine.
     
  12. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    Complete instructions are provided in my earlier post from yesterday. Good luck.
     
  13. zytra

    zytra Junior Member

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    Thanks I was able to safely take it apart and start measuring.
    Currently in the middle of it. Started from ECU side and after 19 modules I cannot say any module stands out as obviously bad. Differences of roughly 0.05V so far between all modules tested. Started to get worried if I don't find the 2 bad ones. Huh

    Drawimg 10A on a 1mn timer.

    Going back to it..
     
  14. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    No that's probably good then. Not having to buy replacements is a great place to be. I just went back to read your DTCs. The last four modules nearest the BCU - which I've been calling the ECU, have the weak ones. The modules are numbered 1-28 from the cooling fan side to the BCU side. I mentioned this somewhere I think. If you started at the BCU and didn't find weak ones, I think it's because their no load voltage is good but their voltage drop under heavy load is excessive.
     
    #74 jadziasman, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
  15. zytra

    zytra Junior Member

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    I posted my codes in the first post, and I think someone said it was 2 failed modules.

    I've tested all 28, I numbered them the wrong way (1 being the closest to the BCU and 28 being the closest to the blower).

    I found one bad one (low start voltage, and big drop): #23

    everything else looks OK to me. I will put the number in a table and post that shortly.

    Is it possible that I only have one bad module? even though my codes called for 2? since I read the code, I did charge and balance, discharge and recharge (no balance). not sure if that could salvage the other possible bad one...
     
  16. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    Not likely, two battery blocks were weak that means at least one module in each block is weak.
     
  17. zytra

    zytra Junior Member

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    here's the data.
    I've highlighted the obvious and put in red font the next two.
    These two are within 0.023 V of the best modules so they really don't strike me as bad.

    The codes that I had were:
    - P0A80
    - P3013
    - P3014

    what should I do?


    FYI: Module #1 is the closest to BCU.
    module-testing.png

    module-test-data-chart.png
     
    #77 zytra, May 18, 2016
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
  18. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    Well, you should read what I posted today. You should drain the modules to a lower voltage to find the weak ones, if they exist.
    The BCU does not lie. Blocks 13 and 14 have issues. Your job is to troubleshoot it. BTW, something is fishy still P3013 and P3014 are for the last four modules but your results show the bad module in block 12? Strange. I guess the BCU makes mistakes after all.
     
  19. zytra

    zytra Junior Member

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    I just finished the update to your post. Thank you! My only concern is lack of time and having the main car at the shop for another week or two, since one with guts open :D, the pickup is just gonna ruin my wallet if I start commuting with it and that's pretty much I've been on a rental since Monday.

    Did you note that I labeled from 1 to 28 starting from the BCU?

    what you call blocks are pair of adjacent modules? so 28 modules makes 14 blocks total? so modules 25, 26, 27 or 28 starting from blower side, so modules 1, 2, 3 or 4 with my labeling... right?

    if so, yeah that makes no sense.
     
  20. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    Not at all. I just take my hobbies very seriously. I wasn't bothered by it, and I would hope you try to be less sensitive when others express their opinions. It can't feel good to walk around that way.

    Blocks 3 and 4, not 13 and 14. His problem module is in block 3 per his chart, i.e., P3013. If you're going to help, please try to be accurate.

    The ECU doesn't lie, but it doesn't diagnose either. A weak module with a weak cell does not necessarily mean bad. It can also mean imbalanced - something a grid charge/discharge will readily correct.

    However, I do agree that the discharge on the modules in block 4 should be taken deeper/longer to confirm correction or an issue (modules 21 and 22).

    3 decimal places is in the ridiculous zone in terms of useful diagnoses. Do yourself a favor and stick with 2 decimal places. True problems are obvious.

    You are looking for outliers. Continue via another discharge and look for "one of these things is not like the others."

    Steve