2006 Prius with 179,000 and battery just died

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by PurcellvillePinball, May 7, 2015.

  1. PurcellvillePinball

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    Thanks everyone for the input. Many factors went into the decision, and just like stock picks, I am sure I could have made better choices.

    Although price was a consideration, I could have afforded the extra $1,000. I think what bothered me the most is that I simply dislike working with dealers and their service departments. A personal gripe I need to get over.

    The other factor was outside items causing the car not to last. This includes other drivers (car accidents), deer (they do not always obey the deer crossing signs), and other parts going bad on the car. Also, if Tesla makes a $45,000 or $50,000 nice car, I think I want that.

    I looked at a lot of the posts and there was nothing definitive (that I found, it could exist and I did not see it) that clearly showed that new batteries do better than remanufactured. (Yes, I realize after I post this I will look again and find it.)

    So I can be a test case and see how this car performs over the next few years. I seem to do about 20,000 a year. One thing I just realized is that my car has been in a garage since I bought it. My garage at home and my garage at work. Next month, we are moving to a building at work that does not have a garage. It will be interesting if this is a factor.

    I will keep this site informed of the car's progress over the next few years and hope to keep talking about my beloved Prius well into 2024.

    Thanks
    Michael
     
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  2. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I'd love to chat with Tesla about their sales in Virginia. My thought is our high local car taxes probably inhibit Model S sales. In general I am concerned our VA car tax policy hurts green cars (as they are more expensive which bumps them into higher tax "bracket"). I guess our car tax it's at least federal tax deductible so that's partial rebate. My thought is used in good condition might help, but I'd be shooting for a PiP.
     
  3. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I understand you are not eager to do business with your local Toyota dealership, which is really unfortunate. An alternate possibility might have been for your local garage to purchase and install a new Toyota battery on your behalf. In any event, the repair is done now, and I wish you good luck with that.

    Your personal experience illustrates that a new battery can last 9 years - since your 2006 Prius was equipped from the factory with a new battery, and that battery just failed in 2015.

    A "remanufactured" battery (I put that word in quote marks because nothing is actually re-manufactured - instead, used modules are tested and if you are lucky, are exercised in some form of charge/discharge cycle, that is it) is at best 6 years old and at worst 11 years old, since it comes from used battery modules from scrapped Prius in the 2004-2009 model years. So you have to be a true optimist to believe that such a used battery will last anywhere as long as a new battery.

    In any event, please let us know how your remanufactured battery works out for you.
     
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  4. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    This all kind of brings up an issue.

    The initial warranty on the Hybrid Battery is great. 8 or 10 years depending on whether you bought and is registered in a CARB state.
    Now I understand Toyota on one level wants to sell you NEW cars. But really, if you keep your Prius long enough that you need a new Hybrid Battery outside of warranty,- they could back the new replacement batteries with a little longer warranty.

    The failure rate is low, so what would it hurt Toyota to at least match the warranty period of most reputable re manufactured batteries?

    It makes me feel, they really don't want people keeping Prius for an extended life span. It's certainly not encouraging.

    Seems like I've read almost equal amounts of stories of people getting a re manufactured battery and being happy...and those that get one and prematurely start having problems.

    On an item as expensive and vital to operation as the Hybrid Battery, if I replace it new through Toyota at my expense? I'd like a warranty that exceeds the one on the Blender I bought at SEARS. You'd think Toyota could offer this.
     
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  5. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I agree. The difference is that there are many blender manufacturers, their business is to sell blenders, and their products are more or less interchangeable so there exists competition on price and other attributes such as warranty terms. If you want a new Prius traction battery, there is only one source. Toyota sells parts as an after thought, not as its reason for existence.
     
  6. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    What seems regrettable to me, is that often in the threads I read, people choose the re manufactured battery from an independent operation, which can be anything from a great to a horrible experience NOT so much based on the price difference but often based on the warranty difference.

    If Toyota bounced their warranty up to 3 years? I think a majority of people would choose New through Toyota.

    Not that re manufactured batteries through independent operations can't be good. If the time comes for me I'll definitely investigate local options. But I have read "some" horror stories where people choose the cheaper independent option with the supposedly better warranty, only to find out pretty quickly "The Warranty Is Only As Good As The Operation Backing It".

    Not saying this is or will happen to the OP. I wish them the best of luck and outcome.
     
  7. PurcellvillePinball

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    Just on a whim, I stopped at my local Toyota dealer to find out about new cars. I really love my Prius and would want a new one. But this year's models do not have the blind spot feature. The Avalon XLE Touring Hybrid has it. I finally gave in and let them appraise my car. Since I told them I just replaced the hybrid battery, my trade in value was $2,500. I had no intention of buying a new car, but it was interesting to see the trade in value.

    And, yes, I think I would have paid Toyota the extra $1,000 if they would have warranted their brand new battery for 3 years rather than 1 year.

    Michael
     
  8. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Michael fyi we are expecting an exciting new Prius Gen4 by end of year. That seems like a stinky trade in value?

    PS- Where do you go? Miller in Manassas? That where I go.
     
  9. PurcellvillePinball

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    I bought my Prius from Miller Toyota in 2006. I tried to buy from Leesburg Toyota (now AutoNation Toyota). They just would not deal back them and Miller would.

    Miller Toyota gave me the $3,166 quote for the new hybrid battery that AutoNation Toyota finally agreed to match once I sent them in email with the quote before I abruptly decided to go local with a remanufactured battery. AutoNation's Price was about $3700; Oursmann in Chantilly was about $4500 which was also about the same price as the Toyota in Winchester that I called.

    I believe that Miller would give me the best price. My son lives in Evansville, Indiana. Is there any advantage to buying from another (hopefully lower cost of living) state? (I have the grandfathered license plates that allow me to use the Dulles toll road HOV so would never want to lose that.)

    Yes. I did read about the next generation so would do nothing until I see what the new one looks like.
     
  10. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Wow that's a nice quote for the battery job from Miller Toyota. Among the best we've heard, assuming that is installed cost.
    It might make sense to buy in MD as I think they have a couple hundred less dealer fees (or whatever they call it) than VA.

    I assumed you might have HOV plates (we do not) as far as I know you can transfer over, but tell you what, I'd be inclined to stay in VA for purchase if I had the valuable plates I think you might have (CF logo on left). But actually Dulles Toll Road is probably still available on the new (center logo) HOV plates, so if that is your only concern, that is still readily available on any new clean fuel car.
     
  11. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    My dealer in CT quoted me $3300 for a new battery at 195k miles in my 2004. I opted for a ReInVolt (now Dorman) at $1600 and my dealer installed it for $400 (after some discussion). I am now at 273k miles (~3 years later) and still running strong.

    JeffD
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think you made the right decision. even though you say you want to keep it as long as possible, it's almost ten years old, and if you put in a new battery, something else expensive is likely to break.
     
  13. PurcellvillePinball

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    I called Progressive Automotive today. I asked them what the definition of a remanufactured battery is. I explained what you wrote here. They said absolutely not. That would mean we sold you a USED battery; we sold you a REMANUFACTURED battery. We would never sell a used battery when we told you it was remanufactured and we would not lie to our customers. They said they are remanufactured and brought back to factory specifications to be as good as a new battery.

    I guess I have worked with them on and off over the years and I believe what they say.

    I hope my battery and car last another 9 years. Only time will tell.

    Thanks
    Michael
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's a word that is difficult to define. how do you 'remake' a battery? when you make something, you use all virgin materials. (unless recycled materials are disclosed) what does it mean to 'remake' it? anything you want it to, i guess. anyway, i hope you get another nine years as well, all the best!(y)
     
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  15. AK_james

    AK_james Junior Member

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    Well, my 2006 Prius just experienced traction battery fail with exact same dash lights experienced by OP including upper left corner of MFD.
    It's a California car with 10-Yr/150K battery warranty and even though car had only 147K miles it was 10-years and 37-days past it's "in-service" date, so not covered by warranty. :(
    I limped it over to dealer (Toyota Carlsbad) and they were nice enough to run a complimentary diagnostic which returned error code P0A80. They recommended replacing hybrid battery pack with a new battery for about $3,500 parts and labor. Not wanting to sink that much into a 10-year old car that may require additional service soon (drive belt, etc.) I googled around and found a local shop that sells "reconditioned" batteries for $699 (90-day warranty) and $999 (1-year/20K warranty) plus about $250 for labor to install. Worth noting is that he said he mostly sells the $699 battery to car dealers (Caveat emptor!).
    Interestingly, the Toyota dealer also said they offer a "remanufactured" battery (1-year/unlimited miles) as an alternative for about $800 less than new, and they said because my car was so close to warranty expiration they would further discount the cost of the $1,850 remanufactured battery by 50%, so now they've got my interest with an out-the-door price of about $1,780 for a battery replacement. When I questioned the value of paying over $500 more for a battery with the same 1-year warranty as my non-dealer quote, the dealer assured me that, as with other parts remanufactured sold by Toyota, only the casing was reused, and in the case of the traction battery "all the cells are new". He further added that the bus bars are replaced with new as well.
    This left me puzzled, since if all cells are new in Toyota's "remanufactured" traction battery why wouldn't they increase the warranty to 3 or 5 years and thereby increase perceived value at very low risk to them?
    I'm thinking about taking Toyota up on their offer and feel the higher cost of a replacement hybrid battery installed by Toyota would payoff in resale value/confidence to next buyer 1-3 years from now (even if out of warranty).
    I welcome feedback and particularly about Toyota's remanufactured hybrid batteries. I'm not sure where the remanufactured batteries are coming from, but dealer says he can have the battery the following day. What are they really doing and who's doing it for them?

    Does Toyota contract out the remanufacturing of it's Prius hybrid batteries?
    Do the remanufactured batteries bear the "Toyota" name?
    Do they utilize all new cells as claimed, and if so, wouldn't this option be as good as new?
    Are they simply "reconditioning" some cells by means of overcharge/deep discharge cycling?


    If I do take it to the dealer I will try to get before and after cell voltage values. Is there anything else I should ask for? Though I didn't ask, I'm assuming they'll keep the old battery for future re-use/disposal.

    By the way the private mechanic advised me if I do drive the car any distance with a dead battery heat build-up is a serious threat and to therefore keep distance to a minimum, avoid mid-day temperatures, run the A/C full blast, and keep air re-circulation mode off. Anyone else concur?

    Thanks everyone for making PriusChat such an awesome resource! :)
     
    #35 AK_james, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  16. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Ask the dealership to call corporate and request a good will warranty. I think they'll give you new battery for free

    SM-N900P ?
     
  17. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    1) Call Corporate Toyota to ask for good will assistance. You might get it (full coverage or partial coverage) since you are 37days over warranty. If a lot of maintenance was performed at a dealer, your chances improve.

    Toyota does not rebuild/remanufacture HV Battery packs for ANY Prius!
    2) Report Carlsbad Toyota to the California Attorney General.
    3) Report Carlsbad Toyota to the California BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair); Resolving Disputes and Reporting Complaints. Full of shite. Fraudsters. Unethical. Scum.
    4) Report Carlsbad Toyota to Toyota. I'm sure Toyota would not appreciate a dealer damaging their brand.
    Toyota only makes NEW HV Battery packs.
    There is a conspiracy theorist member (Kinglew) who believes otherwise. Pay not attention to his misplaced beliefs that Toyota makes rebuilt packs. He lacks conviction to stand up for his belief and sue Toyota, making millions, and proving everyone else on Prius Chat wrong.

    Stop driving the car w/ a bad HV Battery. It will leave you stranded one day, and possibly soon.

    Your car has a lot of life left in it. A New HV Battery pack is expensive, but look how long it served you: 10years/147K miles.
    You can always transfer this battery pack into another Gen2 Prius, if something were to happen you current car; assuming the battery can be transferred (free of damage). A new battery is way cheaper than a new car or a younger used car, assuming your current car has been well maintained, and you are OK to drive it longer.

    Buy a new HV Battery from a different Toyota dealership, not the criminal Carlsbad Toyota.
    $2071 HV Battery from San Bernardino Toyota & North Hollywood Toyota. Another Toyota dealership might price match, esp if they sell online too.
    2007 Toyota Prius Parts - Discounted Toyota and Scion Parts and Accessories
    2007 Toyota Prius Parts - Toyota of San Bernardino Online Parts Store

    The HV ECUs (control module) in the old HV Battery case needs to be transferred to the new HV Battery. This will save you $600. All dealers like to inflate the HV Battery sale with this part, and do a good scare sale, for the uninformed.
    When a new HV Battery is installed by a Toyota dealer, you get 3 years/unlimited mile warranty. When installed by anyone other than a Toyota dealer, you get 1 year/unlimited mile warranty. The warranty (3yr or 1yr) does not require a NEW control module. Have the Toyota dealership show you in PRINT, that a new control module is requrired for warranty.

    Have that other mechanic install this HV Battery. He sounds more knowledgable and trust worthy than the criminals at Carlsbad Toyota.
     
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  18. AK_james

    AK_james Junior Member

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    Ok, message received - Toyota does NOT make anything but new batteries for Prius.

    I've had good experiences to date with my local dealership, and want to believe they are trustworthy, so I will go back to make sure I am understanding them correctly before jumping to any conclusions. Thanks for the links. Details to follow...
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    very interesting, i'll be following eagerly. btw, i think toyota btteries are manufactured by panasonic. new cells are available to professionals, but dealers shouldn't be trading in them.
     
  20. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    In the past, Toyota (thru Toyota USA not the dealer) has been pretty kind and covered people so close to the warranty. Sometimes dealer helps get Toyota approval.

    HV Battery Goodwill Warranty Listing - Toyota Prius USA | PriusChat

    seems harder lately to get assist but this case is better being so close
     
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