2007: This ain't your daddy's NASCAR

What's the point?

Nascar is stupid.

It's not like we need it to test cars to see if they work. Or to test improvements in car technology. There's no point to it anymore. It's just a waste of resources.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Feb 13 2007, 06:35 PM) [snapback]389786[/snapback]</div>

PLEASE don't say we "NEED" humongus trucks. Sheeze. How in God's green earth do you think european contractors and vacationers get around? If you have to say we WANT big trucks, THEN I can respond with rationality. And THAT's called marketing. If you have to swallow it (that is, marketing do-do), when the Ad guru's shovels out a load of what (he says) you NEED/want, then next you'll believe all women have to look runway model perfect and dudes? Well, the Marlboro man (before he died of lung cancer) said you NEED tobacco. You don't have to buy in to the ad man's spin.

P.S. godiva, saying nascar is stupid is like saying ultimate fighting is stupid ... or wars are stupid ... or the jackass movies are stupid ... or ... HEY! I smell a new thread ! ! !

 

Nascar sucks! Although they ARE marketing geniuses.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Feb 13 2007, 09:17 PM) [snapback]389905[/snapback]</div>

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean its stupid. Its a sport, there is a huge fan base that enjoys it and follows it. Its not a "waste of resources" for them and its not designed to fill a need or test anything. Who'se to say Football isn't stupid? Or golf, think about the natural resources that Golf takes up and the space. You've got to live alongside people who like different things than you peacefully, if you don't like it don't watch it but don't call it stupid or a waste, thats ignorant.

Thats a big smug alert on that one.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Feb 13 2007, 09:17 PM) [snapback]389905[/snapback]</div>

Well, you could say the same thing about any spectator sport, or even more, see quote below. Personally, I think we need something like a GASCAR 500: Here's your 5 gallons of unleaded, first one to 500 miles wins.

 

Precisely, where would we be without our irrational loyalties?!?

 

be true to your school

 

Toyota's NASCAR debut is rapidly turning into a nightmare. The premier Toyota driver and team caught CHEATING! :lol:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...ORTS01/70214040

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Feb 14 2007, 02:17 PM) [snapback]390318[/snapback]</div>

Well, actually I think Football is stupid too. Especially when they're out there playing in the snow. The people sitting there in the snow watching them are even more stupid. The guys half naked wearing shirts made of paint when it's 30 degrees and snowing? Now that is really stupid.

Watching golf on TV is like watching paint peel. But golf is a lot less wasteful than Nascar.

Sports are fine when you're participating. I'll sit and fish for a few hours but I won't watch someone on TV sit and fish for an hour. Or even 30 min. Fishing is less wasteful than Nascar too. But I've never been into the irrational loyalties. Not in sports. Not in politics. Not in much of anything.

And having a huge "fan base" doesn't make Nascar any less wasteful or any less stupid.

I don't consider driving a car around in circles to be much of a "sport" either.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Feb 15 2007, 01:25 AM) [snapback]390740[/snapback]</div>

Playing football in the snow or rain on natural turf is fantastic. Those games are also the most fun to watch in my book.

I think NASCAR is much more a test of will and mental toughness, than any physical skill. I watch Daytona and go to the races at Indy and that is about it for me. I actually like INDY cars much better.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Feb 15 2007, 02:25 AM) [snapback]390740[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, NASCAR is probably worse from an environmental point of view because of the large numbers of people driving to see it. I'd think the actual fuel used by the race cars is a drop in the bucket compared to the gas that 150,000 fans at a race in Charlotte used to get there. But golf courses need a lot of water, fertilizer, pesticide and mowing, which has its own impact.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Feb 13 2007, 02:58 PM) [snapback]389609[/snapback]</div>

Any resemblance between the Camry? Mighty narrow statement there ~ me thinks ... how 'bout broadening the statement to, "any resemblance between the (any brand car) to NASCAR. The term 'Stockcar' is an oxymoron for any brand, I think.

Side note: The newspaper today ran "Toyota stockcar fines" up the flag. I don't know shinola about the sport, so I asked a co-worker (who is WAY into the whole thing) about nascar fines. His comment was in essence, "oh heck yea, EVERYBODY in nascar cheats ... tries to sneek in trick tire chemestry, extra fuel, lightning holes, trick aerodynamics". Nobody cares to put it on the front page of the sports section. But when Toyota does it? Ohhhhh ... blasphemous ! ! ! We must give BIG fines for THEIR bad behavior. (wagging head). Wow, if NASCAR is stacking the deck against Toyota, how much MORE would a victory be sweet? I haven't cared to watch Datona for probably 30 years, but I may just plant my arss in front of the plasma screen for this.

 

Evil, evil Toyota. Why is it only the Toyota team's cheating has been spread across the media? Could it be because no one wants the Japanese to participate in an "American Institution"?

First Toyota is criticized because they're not "American" enough even though the "Camry is the only NASCAR Cup car built in the United States. The Ford Fusion is built in Mexico, and the Dodge Charger and Chevrolet Monte Carlo are built in Canada. White also said Toyota is a major player in the American economy because the company and its dealers employ nearly 150,000 Americans."

Then it's because Toyota doesn't "play fair" or perhaps is a little too American in the way it has chosen to enter NASCAR.

"Roush has been one of the most outspoken critics about Toyota's entry into Cup as the series' first full-time foreign manufacturer, but he is hardly alone in his concerns. Many in NASCAR circles argue the Japanese automaker -- which will field seven Cup teams this season -- has begun to alter the landscape of the series."

"Dan Davis, director of Ford Racing Technology, characterized Toyota's practices as predatory because of the way it has lured drivers and top crew and engineering talent from existing teams with high salaries."

"The deep pockets of Toyota and its teams are driving up salaries, devaluing sponsorships and prompting some owners to look for outside financial support, several owners said."

"One of the biggest gripes from owners is they're paying more to keep their personnel from leaving for Toyota jobs."

''There's only one way you can persuade people to move in [the] capitalistic society that we have -- it's wages,"....

Foreign import Toyota worries NASCAR

Now, it's funny that Roush and Evernham should be such outspoken critics of Toyota. And that you are only hearing about the Toyota cheating scandal on the TV. Because THEY ALL DO IT.

Drivers, owners baffled by NASCAR's cheating crackdown.

"Driver Matt Kenseth and car owner Jack Roush expressed outrage Wednesday over NASCAR's decision to dock the team 50 championship points before the season-opener Daytona 500.

Fellow car owner Ray Evernham was equally frustrated by the sport's tough stance on rule-breakers."

"NASCAR suspended Kenseth's crew chief and three of Evernham's crew chiefs Tuesday for violations discovered during qualifying inspections two days earlier.

Punishment only got worse Wednesday, when Michael Waltrip's crew chief and team director were thrown out of the Daytona 500 and suspended indefinitely after an illegal substance was found during inspection. Waltrip was docked 100 points, and his crew chief, David Hyder, also was fined $100,000.

Kenseth said his main concern was his team's punishment was significantly more severe than the one levied against Jimmie Johnson's team before last year's season-opener."

"Robbie Reiser, crew chief for Kenseth, and Kenny Francis, crew chief for Kasey Kahne, were suspended four races and fined $50,000 each. The drivers were docked 50 points each.

Rodney Childers, crew chief for Scott Riggs, and Josh Brown, crew chief for Elliott Sadler, were suspended two races and fined $25,000. The drivers were docked 25 points each."

"But Evernham took exception to the penalties on the other two cars, saying bolts on Dodges driven by Riggs and Sadler were drilled out the same way in all four restrictor-plate races last season.

Evernham also said there was no specific rule covering the bolts, which might prompt an appeal."

What I read is that the rules of NASCAR are not clear, not consistently enforced and penalties for infractions are inconsistent.

When rules and consequences are dependant on the whims of those in charge, that is not a sport. It's an expensive hobby. It's a car club.

And I guess no one wants Toyota to play.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Feb 15 2007, 08:38 PM) [snapback]391228[/snapback]</div>

I have said this from the beginning, this is a very dangerous situation for Toyota. I know they felt they had to do it to sell trucks, but it is still dangerous. Could be a boomerang for dear old Toyota, of course in my corner that is what I am hoping for.

 

Malorn,

You do realize its that attitude that has landed the detroit automakers in the mess they're currently in right? The first step to beating your competition is to respect it. Nobody can deny that Toyota makes appealing, high quality, reliable vehicles. The sooner GM and Ford realize that and move towards what the buying public wants (which they are beginning to do) the better off they'll be.

AND, whats wrong with Toyota wanting to be in NASCAR to sell trucks? Toyota is a business and they are participating in legitimatizing behavior. I, as a business owner, participate in a lot of things I don't really care about (golf tournaments, seminars, luncheons, banquets) because they put me in front of my customers. Why do you think Ford, GM, and Daimler are in NASCAR? Why do you think NASCAR exists?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SW03ES @ Feb 19 2007, 06:48 PM) [snapback]393029[/snapback]</div>

What exactly does the buying public want? Strange you infer that the buying public wants what Toytota builds and not what GM and Ford build. Strange Toyota would make such a substantial investment in a full-size pickup truck if nobody wants them? Can you explain this to me? Waht about full-size and mid-size SUV's. Oh I guess toyota has introduced quite a few of those over the last few years. Answer this for me. Gm and Ford are know for building large cars, trucks and SUV's. When Toyota redesigns a model does it get a little larger or smaller? I am anxiously awaiting your response.

As far as Toyota's participation in NASCAR, I am just reacting to the folks on PC( not all) who are continually acting as though Toyota is a green company and engages only in "altruistic" behavior when the environment is concerned. I guess we all choose what we want to see and what we don't.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Feb 15 2007, 03:52 AM) [snapback]390782[/snapback]</div>

Those people playing golf on the weekends aren't walking or taking the bus to the course.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(koa @ Feb 19 2007, 11:23 PM) [snapback]393109[/snapback]</div>

Actually, some of them are walking. There are two subdivisions built around golf courses within 5 minutes of my house here, it seems to be quite the thing to do now. Still, you have a point, there are 17,000 golf courses in this country, so I suppose the amount of people driving to and from them is significant.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Feb 19 2007, 10:23 PM) [snapback]393081[/snapback]</div>

Well, since nearly all best selling Ford and GM car models have been replaced by Toyotas or Hondas, and Ford and GM sales and market share have been steadily dwindling off while Toyota's sales and market share have grown exponentially I'd say thats a pretty fair indicator that the buying public wants what Toyota is building. For now, Ford and GM still have a corner on the fullsize truck and SUV segment which Toyota is trying to break in on, but with sales of those vehicles also on the decline I think Ford and GM have a serious problem on their hands.

To deny that Ford and GM have been having problems with lagging sales and that Toyota has been having a lot of success at their expense is pure denial. Denial doesn't help anybody.

Well, no offense but people that think that are stupid. Toyota is a company, their goal is to make money. Their concern with the environment and their production of Hybrid cars is another way for them to make money. If they couldn't market Hybrids, they wouldn't build them.