2008 Malibu Hybrid Spied

While I support the concept of more manufacturers producing hybrids, I have a sneaking suspicion that the reality will remain lacking for quite some time. Consider the reliability of the conventional domestic automobile. Now, consider the same domestic car makers desperately trying to get their "hybrids" into consumer hands, to prove they haven't missed the competitive boat. Hastily produced vehicles, with twice the normal complexity in the drive train system, produced by Detroit automakers? Sounds like a recipe for crap to me!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LaughingMan @ Jul 5 2007, 03:34 AM) [snapback]473377[/snapback]</div>

Yes, they did. The first corvettes are an excellent example. You could get the vehicle with standard carbs or pay more for the fuel injected version. It wasn't until the tightening of emission regulations that fuel injection became standard.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jul 7 2007, 12:34 AM) [snapback]474465[/snapback]</div>

You don't even have to go as far back as the first Corvettes. I remember in the 80s that the basic to mid range Accords had carbs, and the top end 4 cylinder was fuel injected. I also think the Corolla was the same (they used to have a sporty GT-S version which was fuel inected, while the low end versions had carbs).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mad Hatter @ Jul 6 2007, 09:53 PM) [snapback]474407[/snapback]</div>

The GM system is not very complicated. The Saturn and other "mild hybrid system use the serpentine belt to connect the electric motor to the engine. It is really just an oversize alternator. It is a very simple system and a very easy system to integrate into existing vehicle platforms.

Despite all the haters here, the domestic automakers don't make smoking piles of crap anymore either. Yes, they may fall slightly behind some of their rivals in quality on some models but you are still talking very reliable vehicles. If you look at industry trends, the reliability of all cars are improving and are greatly improved from even 10 years ago. I cracks up every time I hear someone say, "I had XYZ car back in 1973 and it was crap so I will never buy from them again."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jul 7 2007, 12:42 AM) [snapback]474470[/snapback]</div>

1973? Try 2002, pal. That's the year I bought a POS American car new and it had so many defects that I lost track of them. Perhaps they build them slightly better now but you can't prove it by me. From personal experience, they are a lot further than slightly behind. By the way, calling people who disagree with you 'haters' is a two-edged sword. Perhaps you're a hater too, eh?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jul 7 2007, 12:34 AM) [snapback]474465[/snapback]</div>

With any luck, the tightening of CAFE standards in this country will force more mainstream cars to go hybrid only, then.

 

I watched "Who killed the electric car" last night. It's just as I thought, the big four aren't going to let this happen, including Toyota. They're all in it together. The only thing we can hope for is Toyota finds out that there really is money to made out of all this PR stuff and follows thru. My guess is that the oil boys will drop the price of oil in the next two years (if they can) and get rid of these high mileage cars. If the oil stays high I think the big three are in for a whipping.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jul 6 2007, 09:42 PM) [snapback]474470[/snapback]</div>

I base my continued belief that GM, Ford, and Chrystler make poor quality automobiles on a combination of real world experience and real world testing data.

I have personal experience with older, reliable domestic vehicles, and newer crappy ones. My Chrystler Sebring was a 2000. While I loved the way the car drove, and that it was a great convertible, I had constant minor problems with it. One of them, an intermitent problem with the ignition switch, I took to the dealer no fewer than ten times, to be told that there wasn't a problem. Turns out there was a recall on exactly the same nonexistent problem four years later - about 1 week after I traded it in for my Prius. I use this as an example - there were numerous problems.

I also would refer you to Consumer Reports. Their reliabilty data is based on real world problem reports, with a factor for the costs associated with repairing the problems. While GM, Ford, and Chrystler may have improved their vehicle reliabilty from crappy to poor, they have a very long way to go to achieve the level of quality produced by Toyota and Honda.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mad Hatter @ Jul 7 2007, 06:15 PM) [snapback]474783[/snapback]</div>

You don't have to go that far. Just read consumer reports and they'll corroborate what you took the long road to figure out.

When the prius hit the floor room, it was miles ahead of the mileage competition. When will GM do THAT, Volty? Hugh? Helo! Yep, that's what I thought. When one sees the name 'Volty' on the thread, one can go read about the latest vaporware. So boring.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mad Hatter @ Jul 7 2007, 05:15 PM) [snapback]474783[/snapback]</div>

While your Sebring may have been a 2000, that generation was introduced in 1996 and was designed in the early 90's. This was not a strong time for quality among domestic automobiles. You complain about an ignition switch that you took to the dealer 10 times only to be told it was not a problem even though there was a recall on the switch. This is not a problem with the automaker, this a problem with a very poor dealer. People need to understand that dealers are separate businesses and are not controlled by the automaker.

Lots of people like consumer reports. I'm not a big fan. While they give you general info on the number of "problems" they give you no information on the nature of the problem. It could be anything from a minor annoyance to a catastrophic failure and consumer reports rates the "problem" the same.

I'm a much bigger fan of a system like MSN Autos. They not only rate the vehicle on a 1 to 5 scale for occurrence of problems but also tell you what the most frequent problems are and how much it cost to fix this problem. I also like that they wait 3 to 4 year to give reliability info. Initial quality ratings to me are just guess made based on the reputation of the company

Your 2000 Sebring:
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/reliabil...p;model=Sebring

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jul 9 2007, 02:04 PM) [snapback]475619[/snapback]</div>

Ignition switch not working, and that's NOT a manufacturer problem? Oh ... so if it takes the dealer a long time to fix a problem that came from a manufacturer, it's not a manufacturer's problem. I sure feel better now.

MSN Autos? Gee, I wonder WHY there are all kinds of GM 'pictures' smeared all over the side of their pages. Maybe MSN (unlike C.R.) knows what side of the their bread that the butter is on, since MSN receives MONEY from GM?

Now ... back to the thread: The malibu hybrid. Ok . . . . I'm waiting . . . .

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Jul 9 2007, 01:27 PM) [snapback]475637[/snapback]</div>

You missed my point. Yes, the ignition not working is a manufacturer problem, the first time. You having to take it to the dealer 10 times to get it fixed when there was a recall for that part is a dealer problem. I suspect if you would have taken it to the dealer and they fixed it the first time at no charge, you wouldn't have such a bad impression of your Sebring.

MSN gets their reliability info from Automotive Information Systems who's primary business if providing technical support to automotive technicians. I trust information collected from the technicians working on the car much more than surveys sent out the the owners of cars.

BTW, when I was just on MSN Auto's the majority of ads were for Victoria's Secret. It must be a grand conspiracy between GM, MS, and Victoria's Secret right? I also saw some ads for Volvo (Ford) and Nissan so they must be in on it to. They distract us from their poor quality with scantly clad women.

You may need to tell the people that do the car review over at MSN too. They are consistently rating Honda and Toyota's better than GM and Fords. The domestics seem to average about a 8 out of 10 while the Japanese get 9 out of 10. They even gave the Prius a 9.5 out of 10. Everyone knows that a someone on the payroll of GM should have scored the Prius no better than a 5 out of 10 due to it's lack of power, horrible fuel economy, and terrible environmental record compared to a Hummer H2. :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jul 9 2007, 03:31 PM) [snapback]475678[/snapback]</div>

Funny you'd start out with 'missed my point', then capture the very essence of missing a point, by deminimizing the fact that taking sponsers (unlike consumer reports) taints objectivity ~ by pointing out GM isn't MSN's only sponser?

BTW, your beef with CR is that they are not specifying nature of problems?
Let's see (for example), a few years ago, CR wrote up MB & suzuki SUV's for roll-overs. What would YOU expect them to do ... go of on some techno diatribe on the height to speed to weight to width ratio? Maybe throw in a hundred years of history on auto roll overs? Or is it more prudent to simply say that the SUV's ROLL OVER. Your talking about CR not specifying the "nature" of auto problems, then you do the same thing ... not specifying the nature of what the heck you mean. Get it? At some point (SOON) you bore your readers. I have yet to hear from another (other than your self) that CR is some how writing convoluted descriptions of car's problems. Even so, heck, if you love MSN (many despise anything that Bill Gates is remotely related to ... "specifically" speaking, his minions forever try to run good companies out of business .... specifically speaking) than go ahead & keep on lovin' good ol' MSN, despite receiving $$ from their sponsers.

But what does Volty have to say . . . . the malibu hybrid was "spied". The link was from GM for God sake! Who do they think is spying on them? Must be all that clever creativity ... that's why everyone's spying on GM. Who spys on a company trying to play catch up?!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Jul 9 2007, 09:58 PM) [snapback]475914[/snapback]</div>

I take it you didn't follow the link I provided to see what reliability information MSN Autos actually gives. Since you couldn't be bothered here is a cut and paste:

MSN Auto's rates the Transmission and Driveline of the 2003 Mini Cooper as having Significant Problems:
"An occasional problem on this vehicle is failure of the 5-speed Manual Transmission, standard Mini Cooper only. Does not apply to the 6-speed Manual Transmission on the Mini Cooper S or to the Automatic Transmission. The cost to repair the 5-speed Manual Transmission is estimated at $1785.00 for parts and $650.00 for labor. All prices are estimates based on $65.00 per flat rate hour and do not include diagnostic time or any applicable sales tax.."

The 1999 Chrysler Sebring Engine is also rated as having "Significant Problems":
"Occasional problems on this vehicle are failures of the Distributor and the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve (2.5L V6 engines only). Failure of the Distributor may prevent the vehicle from starting. The cost to repair the Distributor is estimated at $660.00 for parts and $52.00 for labor. The cost to repair the EGR Valve is estimated at $125.00 for parts and $58.50 for labor. All prices are estimates based on $65 per flat rate hour and do not include diagnostic time or any applicable sales tax."

So the rating is the same but to fix the Honda is would cost almost $2500 and the Sebring only $700 or $200. To me that is useful information. It tells you the nature of the problem, the models that are effected, and how much it will cost to fix. THIS IS THE KIND OF INFORMATION THAT IT WANT.

To me this is much more useful that Consumer Report's 5 colored circles. What does a colored circle really tell you besides total number of complaints? It tells you nothing about the severity of the problem, nothing about what models are effected, nothing about how much it may cost to fix.

To Consumer Reports a failure that costs $50 to fix and only effects some convenience feature is rated the same as a failure that cost $2500 to fix and may cause a accident. It doesn't matter to Consumer Reports if you rear-view mirror falls off or your brake calipers fall off, it is still just 1 complaint.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mad Hatter @ Jul 6 2007, 10:53 PM) [snapback]474407[/snapback]</div>

My thought exactly! You do not want a GM vehicle that was rushed into production, especially with anything more than the SOS (ICE,4 speed auto). Perhaps GM will build a flop and say "see them Hybrids is junk!" "Hows about a POWERFUL V8 to make a MAN out of you?" I sat in a 2007 Malibu and did not like the front seat or dash layout. I adjusted the seat to fit my 6'2 250lbs frame and then proceeded to try to sit in the back, my feet were hopelessly jammed up behind the drivers seat and the footwell. The Prius is smaller, but I have no problem doing the same drill in my car.
I come from a Chevy family, dreaming of my own Chevy to make my life wonderful. At near 40 years and after plenty of motorcycles and Big 3 Iron, with plenty of problems, my Prius is just what I need. Thank you Toyota. Piss off GM.

 

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...COL14/709300675

As a sort of follow-up, the Malibu "hybrid" is a mild one and will be put in the 4-cylinder version. As usual with GM cars, fit and finish and body integrity aren't very good and the 4-banger is noisy. It offers a, perhaps, 2 mpg improvement over the non-mild hybrid. If this is the best that GM can do at the moment, I'd wait until the Volt shows up. Even then, since they can't seem to get body integrity and fit and finish right, I'd wait for the Volt to be out for a couple of years before deciding whether it was worth buying or not.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Jul 7 2007, 05:16 AM) [snapback]474544[/snapback]</div>

Jack, time to come clean. Your posts always read like a subtle toyota ad, just coincidence? YOu always provide little stories about "other" brands. For the record what exactly did you buy in 2002 and what were the defects? What year is your Prius and how many miles do you hav eon it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jul 4 2007, 10:54 PM) [snapback]473262[/snapback]</div>

'Stuck' waiting my be presumptious. Perhaps GM feels they won't sell well among the few remaining GM deciples. Thus, the taxi market may be the best place to dump 'em.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Oct 1 2007, 12:31 PM) [snapback]519838[/snapback]</div>

come come, malorn, surely you know the first rule of sales. A pissed off customer will dis you to everyone and I mean E_V_E_R_Y_O_N_E. Conversely, a happy customer will praise you to the heavens to anyone and everyone. I've owned Chevys before and the last one was so bad that I dumped it after only a year and CR reinforces what I already know: Chevy is synonymous with the letters POS. Learn to make your customers happy instead of milking them for all that you can while simultaneously milking GM for all you can via warranty work. You KNOW what I'm talking about.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jul 4 2007, 10:54 PM) [snapback]473262[/snapback]</div>

'Stuck' waiting my be presumptious. Perhaps GM feels they won't sell well among the few remaining GM deciples. Thus, the taxi market may be the best place to dump 'em.