2010 ABS recall - problem occuring post "fix"

welcome!

can you describe the symptoms in more detail? does it happen when going over a rough surface?

and/or around 6mph?

 

try to be more aware in the future and make notes od speed and road surface. the traction control is not perfect over rough surfaces/potholes/manholes what have you, and the transition from region to full friction braking is especially sensitive, even after the recall.

this has been an ongoing characteristic since at least 2004, so i don't think we'll be seeing another recall.

but yours may have a more serious problem that can't be diagnosed over the internet, and needs to be looked at by a professional.
you may want to look for a used prius for sale that you can test drive and compare.

 

I had a recall for possible "brake booster pump assembly", dated August 2013. The reference number (through Toyota Canada) was SOSH-966-1A. The description mentions a plunger, metal-pleated bellows and nitrogen gas. The concern was that the bellows could start to leak.

There was no software update involved with that, as far as I know.

There have been a couple software update recalls, both relating to the inverter.

I've never had a recall for the ABS (Antilock Braking System), or unexpected acceleration.

 

There's a very well-known aspect of driving a Prius, any Prius back to the first generation, where a feeling that's like "acceleration", even though it isn't, can startle you if you're not used to it, when a switch from regen to friction braking gets triggered abruptly by road conditions. (The transition that always happens around 6 mph is usually much less noticeable, because it's perfectly predictable and the car gets to plan a smooth transition ahead.)

Some early 2010s had an extra-pronounced version of that behavior, more than what every other Prius driver is used to, and for that extra-pronounced behavior there was a recall, A0B. It would update the brake firmware to F152647106 (if the car has 15" wheels) or F152647126 (if 17" wheels). That would take care of the peculiar 2010 exaggerated handoff behavior, making it like other Prii. It did not turn the car into a non-Prius.

By this time, a 2010 might also have been updated further, to F152647108 / F152647128, for reducing some honking/barking noises.

If the behavior you're talking about is some actual acceleration or something that occurs under other circumstances, then it's possible there is some problem with your car that still needs to be looked at. But if it could be that you're just noticing the typical abrupt-handoff feeling and thinking of it as "acceleration", then it's normal, and you can sell the car in good faith if you'd prefer something else.

 

Read court judgement attached (pg 4)
Read explanation and data attached (pg 2)
Read EDR ("black box") (pg 13)


November 2, 2016 NHTSA ID NUMBER: 10923921
Components: AIR BAGS, SERVICE BRAKES, SEAT BELTS
NHTSA ID Number: 10923921

Incident Date October 17, 2016

Consumer Location TUCSON, AZ

Vehicle Identification Number JTDKN3DP4D3****

Summary of Complaint

CRASHYes

FIRENo

INJURIES1

DEATHS0

I WAS DRIVING STRAIGHT ON A CITY ROAD WITH THE FLOW OF HEAVY TRAFFIC AT ABOUT 40 MILES PER HOUR WHEN THE CAR IN FRONT OF ME CAME TO A SUDDEN STOP. I IMMEDIATELY SLAMMED ON MY BRAKES VERY HARD. AT THE TIME I DID THIS I HAD PLENTY OF SAFE DISTANCE BETWEEN US. BUT, THE BRAKES NEVER CAME ON AND I ENDED UP RUNNING INTO THE REAR END OF AN SUV AT APPARENTLY FULL SPEED WITHOUT ANY NOTICEABLE SLOWDOWN. THE BRAKES DID NOT COME ON. THEY DIDN'T GRAB, AND THEY DIDN'T MAKE ANY SCREECHING NOISE AND THERE WERE NO TIRE MARKS ON THE ROAD. ALSO ALL OF THE AIRBAGS DEPLOYED AND THIS WAS A FRONTAL IMPACT, WHICH WAS VERY SURPRISING AND SUFFOCATING. A CLOUD OF DUST FILLED THE CABIN OF THE CAR AND I COULD NOT BREATHE. I WAS LITERALLY SUFFOCATING UNTIL I WAS ABLE TO OPEN THE DOOR AND GET OUT OF THE VEHICLE. I DIDN'T EVEN FEEL THE SEAT BELT TIGHTEN UP BEFORE THE CRASH. THE BRAKES NEVER FELT LIKE THEY CAME ON AT ALL. *TR *JS

1 Affected Product
2 Associated Documents

• Complaint LetterCL-10923921-8088.pdf 1730.46KB
• Response LetterRL-10923921-4102.pdf 559.411KB

Request Research (Services fees apply)

 

After Roger Hogan won his lawsuit, I thought we’d heard the last from @JackTheNarrator. Welcome back!

Like many people who have read the sad story of Task X (PDF), I’m glad to see Toyota criticized for the quality of their software, when they deserve it, but I can’t agree that the NHTSA complaint kindly shared in post #7 demonstrates a design or manufacturing defect in the Prius braking system.

The readout from the event data recorder shows the state of the stop light switch assembly, labeled “Service Brake, ON/OFF,” but the Toyota 12EDR installed in the subject vehicle is not designed to record the position of the brake pedal, as might have been measured by the brake pedal stroke sensor, nor the regenerative braking request or operation torques, nor the regenerative cooperation status. (See Webster, G., et al., “Accuracy of Recorded Driver Inputs in Toyota Part 563 EDR,” SAE Technical Paper 2014-01-0505, 2014.)

We simply don’t have objective evidence of what the complainant’s car was (or was not) asked to do, in terms of braking. It could have been that the complainant pressed the brake pedal only far enough to actuate the stop light switch, but not far enough to cause actual braking, regenerative or hydraulic, until some time between 1.15 and 0.65 seconds before the collision, when the hydraulic brakes were fully applied.

You might consider using a Toyota Techstream diagnostic system to make a continual record of braking-related parameters from the car—ideally, the complete ABS/VSC/TRAC data list—while it exhibits the behavior in question. We usually think of Techstream as a tool to retrieve diagnostic trouble codes and other information from a parked vehicle, but it also has a recording feature that can be used while the car is running. In the Techstream online help, see the topics “Recording,” “Snapshot,” “Trigger Setting,“ and “Saving,” all under the “Diagnostics Functions” heading. You’d want to have a second person operate the system, or set it up not to require attention from the driver, and keep the interface cable well clear of the pedals, of course.

With a recording like this, your dealer or Toyota might be able to explain the behavior you have noticed. If there is a defect in the software, having a record of what happened, from the skid control ECU’s perspective, would be valuable evidence. Even if everything is normal, we’d all learn something about regenerative braking cooperative control and how it interacts with other functions of the braking system.

 

Not to get too distracted by that ... 6 mph or so is where the car normally and always hands off from regen to friction, and usually without a noticeable handoff effect, because it is extremely predictable and the car is able to plan ahead for it and transition smoothly.

If you're ever going to notice the handoff effect in a Prius, you are much more likely to notice it during light/moderate braking at some higher speed, where the car would normally have no reason to hand off from regen to friction, but some road irregularity triggers an abrupt change of plan.

I don't have enough information to say whether you're experiencing that, but it is a very common topic of Prius conversation around here, and often is perceived as brief "acceleration" by people noticing it the first time, though it's really a momentary dip in the rate of braking.

 

Elektro>>>>>
search: dezinformatsiya
"disinformation is deliberate falsehood promulgated by design"
search: ZG1, ZJB, E0U, DOH, ZE1, ZKC, ZKK, KOL
C1391, C1256, U0293

 

I was just thinking to myself, if only Elektro could be encouraged to do more research, and post less untethered speculation ....

 

I had that same recall done in 2013... last week I flushed my brake fluid and found out the right front calipers bleeder screw was cross threaded.... too bad I found out 6yrs too late. No way to prove it was them other than me knowing I never bled the brakes.

I didn't mess with it and just didn't flush that caliper. Wasnt 100% positive I'd get the brakes back together in time and didn't have a spare caliper handy. I never had an issue, was just doing preventative maintenance, but I know I'll need a new caliper some time in the future!