2010 Model disappointing to me

I am so disapointed in the 2010 Prius (I have a gen2 2004 Prius now), that I called my Toyota dealer and asked them to send me my $500 deposit back I put down on a 2010 about a year ago, when I first heard about it.

I will not wait any longer for Toyota to get their act together and release the PHEV, I'm done.

I am going with the Chevy Volt, and will wait until November 2010, if and when it's released. 40 mile EV range, then the onboard range extender (3 cyclinder 1 liter, runs on gasoline or E85) will go another 300-400 miles and is supposed to be rated at 50MPG for this, keeping the battery SOC @ %30

also, the top end 2010 Prius is supposed to be up around $56K, no thanks. The Volt is expected to come in at $40-$42K, and thats more realistic a range. Toyota just lost a loyal customer, good work.

Mitch

 

The Prius is not a Corvette, but it has enough acceleration for merging and passing. I drove a Camry once, as a loaner, and I did not like it. Sure it had more power, but the power was unnecessary. I didn't care for the feel of the car, and I couldn't wait to get my Prius back.

The econ mode will get better FE than the power mode, but a smaller ICE in econ mode would have done better yet.

I'm glad to hear they've improved the seats. That is a weak point in the current model. (Though to give credit where credit is due, the current Prius seats are more comfortable than the seats in my Xebra. -- Yes, the Xebra does have its shortcomings, even though it is more fun to drive than the Prius.)

 

'Cause if anyone has their act together, its GM

GM might get the Volt out by next year, if they don't go bankrupt this year. They might make a decent, reliable car. It might really get 40 miles on a charge and 50mpg after that. It might only cost $40,000. Then again, monkeys might fly out of my butt.

Or you can buy an '09 Prius for $23k, put a Hymotion conversion in it for $10k, and have an incredibly well designed, well built, proven, reliable, 100+ mpg for 30-40 miles, 50mpg after that PHEV on the road today for $33k. There are people on this list getting 150-180mpg average out of their Hymotion Priuses. That would take the average American's gasoline consumption from 750 gallons to 83-100.

Or you can wait another year or two for the factory version. Its precisely because Toyota has their act together that they don't just spit out a poorly designed, poorly tested, unreliable PHEV as GM appears to be considering out of shear desperation.

Rob

 

This may not have been what you want but I can assure you that Toyota did extensive consumer testing.

 

Really? I thought that initially they were getting those numbers but are now generally under 100 mpg overall.

I'd wait for a stock Toyota PHEV myself. They should be able to pull off something great in a couple years.

 

I would be very interested to see where you've heard a credible discussion of the 2010 pricing structure that includes a $56k top end. Most people put it at or below the current offering. They are introducing a lot of new options, but not $36k worth. You can get a GS450h with all the same options for under $60k. The new HS250h with all the same stuff is expected to only ~$35k from what I've seen.

Rob

 

> Or you can wait another year or two for the factory version.

I've already waited a year or two... I was looking forward to a plugin. The changes in the 2010, along with frills like solar roof (Air con would drain my battery right down if idling with it on for long) are mostly fixes for things that annoy me.

Nothing in the 2010 really captures my attention that the plugin would have. After all the hype I too am dissapointed. Alternatives like the volt (when the prices come down) seem quite a bit more attractive...

S.

 

The Volt concept was first shown in 2007 and is scheduled to go on sale in 2011. I don't consider a vehicle with 5 year development cycle to be poorly tested. That is 5 years on top of GM's other hybrid and EV development. You may have doubts about the Volt but you can't claim they are rushing it to market.

A Prius with a Hymotion conversion is very different from a factory PHEV with a 40 mile EV ONLY range.

Hymotion claimes 100 mpg for 30 to 40 miles. The EV only range is more like 5 miles. My wife can't drive her 15 mile commute as an EV with a L5 Hymotion conversion.

 

You could import a plug in from BYD in China:

BYD F6DM Chinese Plug-in Hybrid Car

 

Clearly you are not one to carry a lot of different sized items in your car The shift to the hatchback with FOLDING rear seats was a BIG reason the gen 2 was a seller.

Shy a load of bark mulch or 4x8 sheet goods, there is very little most people might want to transport that does not fit inside a Gen 2 Prius with the hatch closed. And certainly there is nothing you can fit in a Gen 1 that you can't fit in a Gen 2. Sure, you can't fit a 16' canoe in there, but you can't fit one in any other vehicle either

However, I do wish Toyota would make a sedan version (WITH FOLDING REAR SEATS!) for those people who really want a trunk.

 

Which is interesting since Consumer Reports rates the Touring version much higher than the 'regular' Prius. I presume that can only be related to the two things that I know of that might affect performance:

1. The suspension
2. The larger, better (VERY SLIGHTLY) tires

 

I was thinking of theforce in particular. His Oct Fillup (first tank after converting in Aug) was 162.2mpg calculated, tank lasted 1275 miles, fillup was 7.862 gallons. Can-View was estimating in the 180s and still showing well over 1/4 tank. Nov fillup was "only" 117.7mpg (1105.6 miles, 9.393 gallons) due to several longer trips. He hasn't filled up again since 11/18, so we don't know what the next tank will be, the data collection process is really slow

I agree that his results are somewhat exceptional, there are others getting 100mpg or less. However, I think its is a good example of what a converted current gen Prius is capable of. Lots of people rag on the current gen because it can only go "full EV" up to 34mph and has to use the ICE under a number of circumstances. They point to this as clear evidence that the Volt will be vastly superior because it will never ever use the ICE (which probably isn't really true either). Theforce's results illustrate that despite the current Prius's shortcomings, it can perform very well as a PHEV. The factory version should be even better, as they will be able to rectify some of the "shortcomings" that converters must live with.

Rob

 

Similar to the Gen1 to Gen2 design change. Larger, more power, better MPG. But one still wonders what they could have done with a 1.5L ICE all else in the 2010 being constant

I got the impression that they didn't get RID of it, just moved it outside the battery pack. There was one picture clearly showing a squirrel cage fan NEXT to the battery enclosure. I'm sure they still need to monitor and adjust the battery temp for performance and longevity.

 

Um, Rae, riding in the hatch is NOT recommended

 

Huh? By definition they over-engineered it. They added features that really weren't needed and increased cost. This is a natural approach to engineering something new that you want to be reliable. They have enough experience now to realize it was unnecessary. It's not necessarily an insult to refer to it as over-engineering it as long as it works, and it did. The problems is increased cost, weight, and complexity.

If you've done design, you've over engineered stuff in some fashion.

 

I asked the chief engineer about the larger engine also. He explained this to us. The original Prius was desinged for the Japan driving experience. There are very few highways and usually the speeds do not exceed 60 KPH (KPH as he said). His goal on the 3 gen was increase the highway MPG. To do this, he increased the size of the ICE to allow lower RPM at highway speeds.

 

And there's still a vent on the rear seat, near the previous location.

 

Except that you basically lose your cargo capacity unless you are willing to leave the spare at home. Might be OK for a quick trip to the lumberyard. Not going to cut it for a family trip to anywhere. Still waiting for the battery engineers to continue the 'more power in a smaller footprint and less weight' development. The Volt will also suffer here. I was surprised to see it seats only 4 with a seat cushion high 'tunnel' running the length of the car. I don't know what is in the space (as I've only seen pictures of course) but I have to assume the 'lost' center rear seat is due in some fashion to the space needed for batteries.

Oh, and I don't like the ergonomics of the front console/controls in it any more than I like those on the 2010 Prius.

 

I agree, and was exaggerating/ranting. GM orginally was saying they would have they would be selling Volts in 2009, which would have been a total rush job. Nov. 2011 is a much more sane estimate, that lends a little more credibility.

True. But a vehicle you can buy today is also very different than one that exists only on paper. You are correct about Hymotion's claim, as verified by the DOE. On repeated runs of the UDDS cycle (7.5 mile stop and go, with max speed of 56mph) from a cold start they achieved 148, 200, 187, 74.3, and 66.4 mpg). That works out to 175.8 mpg for 22.5 miles, 131.0 mpg for 30 miles, or 109.6 mpg for 37.5 miles. EV range is typically about 1/2 the mixed mode range, so that would be 15-20. The numbers I've seen from members of the list have been in the 17-22.5 range. That will of course depend on a lot of things, route type/distance, speed, temperature, driving style etc. I think its very fair to say that all of these factors are a much bigger deal in a phev than in a standard hybrid or regular car. In the limit your tank average mileage can be anything between about 40mpg and inf mpg.

Rob

 

Thats a fair criticism. On the other hand, taking a phev on long trips kind of defeats its purpose. Also, the cal-cars folks have come up with a lead acid conversion battery box on tail-gate struts that lifts to allow spare tire access. Its only a matter of time until someone can do the same with the smaller/lighter Li-ion. My guess is Hymotion designed their first pack like a brick sh*thouse to make absolutely sure it passed crash testing. See "over-engineered" discussion above

Rob