2010 oil burning fix

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Schiele, Dec 30, 2018.

  1. Schiele

    Schiele Junior Member

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    So I have had 2 2010 Prius with oil burning issues. My most recent Prius had the issue with 80k and burning a qt every 1000 miles, it now has 130k. So with the car being out of warranty and the recall that applies to the corrolas which I think have the same piston I was pretty bummed and started surfing the web not really finding anyone saying they fixed or slowed down the oil burning without replacing pistons. So really didn't want to replace the pistons which would cost me near 600$ doing it myself, i starting piston soaks. The first time I tried it after driving 30 mins to my shop. For those who are saying what is a piston soak? It's where you remove the spark plugs and pour in a top engine cleaner, such as acdelco x66, and then suck out the remaining before installing the spark plugs and running. The first time I did this was only for 2 hrs and I had no results . The second time I did it was several months later when I had an extra vehicle available. This time I did the same procedure but let it sit for a total of 3 days. After 24 & 48 hrs I sucked the remaining out, cranked the motor with plugs still out. I found the cylinders 1/4 had nothing left in the cylinders indicating it had all past by the rings. On the 3rd day I sucked everything out again and all cylinders held the cleaner . I changed the oil, have driven the past 5,000 miles, oil is still clean, and full. While it's only been 5k I would have added 5 qts of oil by now, and thats a massive improvement that a lot of us can benefit from. Hope this helps people surfing and looking for a low cost fix. If you have any questions please post below, or pm me.
     
  2. Pluggo

    Pluggo Active Member

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    It makes sense. I would expect that carbon builds up and binds to the cylinder walls in irregular patterns, here a bit more, there a bit less, and that the gaps along the walls, although microscopic, would allow significant oil blow-by in that high-pressure environment. After the carbon dissolves, I can see that the piston rings would spring wider (microscopically!) and make good contact with the cylinder wall again.
     
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  3. Schiele

    Schiele Junior Member

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    If I understand it correctly bases on the corrola teardowns, the rings seize in the pistons because of poorly designed oil return holes. The pistons should have more holes I believe.
     
  4. tvpierce

    tvpierce Active Member

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    Great work Schiele! Thanks for posting this.

    I have a 2013 with an oil drinking problem. This past summer I had done a fair amount of research on piston soak and decided to give it a try. I used Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner simply because it seems to have a good reputation among knowledgeable people, and it was readily available at my local Chrysler dealer for $8 per can. The GM product seems equally popular/respected, but costs about double.
    I sprayed it in and left it overnight -- about 12 hours if I remember correctly. None of it seemed to leak out of the combustion chamber -- which indicated to me it hadn't done much for the rings. It's been driven 20K miles and I haven't noticed any decrease in the amount of oil consumed.

    One thing I remember from my research was that GM had a similar issue with some Northstar engines in their Cadillacs. The Technical Service Bulletin fix included a piston soak, but they went a step further: they then used a leak-down tester to apply air pressure to the cylinder with Top End Cleaner in it -- thereby forcing the chemical past the rings. To me this seemed brilliant. I may try it when the weather warms up here in the spring.
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sidewalk Supervisor

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    Or put a ratchet wrench on the crankshaft, turn it over by hand. Would four "compressions" ensure every piston came up to TDC with the valves closed? Which would hopefully push the fluid past the rings

    I know from checking valve clearance on Honda, there's always a building resistance, then you get past TDC and it coasts. And you typically do one of those (per cylinder valve clearance check).

    I'd be inclined to use small amounts of cleaner with this method, and numerous repetitions, maybe an hour "steep" with each. And then drain the oil immediately.
     
    #5 Mendel Leisk, Dec 31, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
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  6. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Did you have to vacuum out anything after 12 hours?
     
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  7. tvpierce

    tvpierce Active Member

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    Great idea Mendel! Brilliant in its simplicity.
     
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  8. tvpierce

    tvpierce Active Member

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    Yes, all of it. I could see precisely how much was in each cylinder by using a cheap wifi endoscope camera I bought on Amazon. (it's not that exact one, but similar) The engine is slanted so the pistons aren't parallel to the ground. So I put in enough fluid to just barely cover the entire piston top. When I checked after 12 hours, the piston tops were still covered.

    Also, I did rotate the crank back and forth by hand -- using a socket & ratchet -- in an effort to encourage "movement" of the fluid. It didn't work.
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sidewalk Supervisor

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    Jacking up the front might help. A bit.

    Anyone know the normal crankshaft rotation direction?
     
  10. ALS

    ALS Active Member

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    There's another product out there that may help that you add during your oil change. It's called Auto-Rx and it was originally designed to clean out oil gallery's of sludged motors. The thing they found out was it also cleaned all the crap off the rings and improved the compression.
    Engine Cleaner - Auto-Rx Plus

    BG also has something called Dynamic Engine Restoration. Dynamic Engine Restoration Service | BG Products, Inc.
     
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  11. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    Good idea. You want all 4 pistons mid stroke and the tops as level as you can get them.

    My seriously high mileage bank courier bud had his mechanic perform a piston soak and definitely got good results with much better oil consumption numbers.
    His mechanic lets it soak for a week or so.

    The idea is mainly the oil control rings and the holes to the inside of the pistons are gunked up.
    I'm sure the other rings have gunk in the grooves also. I don't know what product he used. I'll ask and post it here.
     
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  12. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Active Member

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    Clockwise at you look at it.
     
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  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sidewalk Supervisor

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    Thank you!

    Checked a Honda Shop Manual, also clockwise. Having screw and lock nut adjustment valve clearance adjustment, it's relatively easy to verify.

    Honda has (or had?) good manuals btw, clear/complete line art diagrams and generally good descriptions. Some screw ups.

    IMG_9800.JPG
     
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  14. Tande

    Tande Active Member

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    If these cleaners get results as posted above......would they not also work for EGR cooler soaks?
     
  15. farmecologist

    farmecologist Senior Member

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    Good stuff! Another tool to add to our 'oil consumption toolkit' !

    Seems pretty easy to do as well...if you can let the vehicle sit idle for a few days. (y)
     
  16. milkman44

    milkman44 Active Member

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    raytheeagle and I used this and got some good results. I followed the directions and ran 10,000 miles with the MOA plus Mobil1, did one oil change cycle w/Mobil1 only and then used EPR and MOA again with Mobil1. I'm getting close to 5000 miles on a quart, good enough for an auto with 192,000 miles on it.

    BG MOA EXTENDED LIFE 115 + BG EPR 11oz CANS AND BG FUNNEL 713807370923 | eBay
     
    #16 milkman44, Dec 31, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
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  17. NewHybridOwner

    NewHybridOwner Junior Member

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    But what is this stuff, and what effect does any that does leak past the rings have on the oil? Is it recommended to change the oil after doing this? (I'm asking out of curiosity: no oil consumption problems with our 2015 Prius.)
     
  18. milkman44

    milkman44 Active Member

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    When time to change oil, pour EPR in the engine, run at high idle 1200RPM or so for time indicated in the instructions. Drain the oil and add new oil and the can of MOA and run as usual until next oil change.

    Edit: I was calling it EPA, should have typed EPR.
    Info at the bottom of the link that I provided.
    BG MOA EXTENDED LIFE 115 + BG EPR 11oz CANS AND BG FUNNEL 713807370923 | eBay
     
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  19. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    BG Products epr works well;).

    It’s goal is to cleanse the oil side of the engine and remove deposits. With 194 k miles on our 2010 and a quart of oil consumed every 4500 miles or so, it’s help keep the consumption in check:).

    I’ve Fed our Prius high quality oil and it didn’t stop consumption, but it’s manageable and watching the dip stick is the key;).

    But EPR is only one of many fluids that can help(y).
     
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  20. milkman44

    milkman44 Active Member

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    There are probably many solutions, one post on here stated that six tanks with Chevron Techron fixed the oil consumption. I think the oil consumption is caused by the oil rings becoming carboned up and on the Prius I tend to think it comes from the combustion side of the piston rather than the oil side since the engine doesn't get hot enough to carbon up from hot oil.
     
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