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2010 Prius: More than Mercedes, BMW, Cadillac or Acura? Yep!!

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by a priori, Mar 4, 2009.

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  1. Radon

    Radon New Member

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    I think driving comfort and feel is part of the formula and to restrict it would be like comparing McDonalds to you local steak house and only talking about the weight and amount of food and not taste. Yes your original post did say interior space but you added EPA and carbon foot print but you may as well compare what is good in the other cars and be confortable with what you have rather than having a hissy when people mention it.

    While owning a Prius or other hybrid it doesn't mean you have to chest thump and say I'm the best. Leave that to the hummer crowd.
     
    #41 Radon, Mar 8, 2009
  2. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    All I can go by are my personal impressions after sitting in the 460L. Yes, it's a very nice car, acres of soft leather and wood.

    Based on my Shoulder Test, Butt Test, and Leg Test, the 460L "feels" roomier inside than the Prius. Seat comfort is - naturally - light years beyond a Prius or FJ

    Had a chance to peek in the trunk, and it seemed to be a fairly large trunk, for a car that size. Obviously, a trunk doesn't have the versatility of a hatchback or station wagon design

    Eg: if I were in the market for an expensive luxury car, I'd probably consider the Mercedes "R" over a Lexus. The reliability won't be as good, and I'd avoid the diesel engine anyway, but the R is a very versatile design

    And no, I won't even hazard a guess how many sheep can fit in a Lexus LS 460L or Mercedes R350
     
    #42 jayman, Mar 8, 2009
  3. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    +1

    That's a very good point
     
    #43 jayman, Mar 8, 2009
  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Haha oh yes the LS has a LOT more space than the Prius. It is a large sedan after all. You'll notice that it also has thinner backseats. Keep in mind that in that realm, the bigger the seat, the better. It'll make you look like you're sitting on a throne (ever see how thick the front seatback of a Bentley is?). However, it can be just as comfortable with a thinner seat if it's of the right design.
     
    #44 Tideland Prius, Mar 8, 2009
  5. a priori

    a priori Canonus Curiosus

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    OK. I was just responding to the earlier post about the driving features of all the other cars. The 318i was a way to get a relatively inexpensive and reliable small sedan -- better put together than U.S. cars, more reliable engine, and a body that wouldn't rust away, like the Japanese cars of the day. It is a bit hard to compare cars across so many years.

    I wasn't looking to do more in this thread than to help other Prius enthusiasts see that the 2010 Prius is entering another domain -- not of the sports sedan, per se, but of the midsize sedan. I did limit my comparisons to exterior and interior space, MPGs and environmental claims. I kept the driving performance out of the picture, because I don't see anyone reasonably claiming that the Prius is that type of automobile. I find it fun to drive, but not because it corners well!

    Say what you will! My gripe is that you call me out for saying the Prius is out sporting the sports cars -- when I never made the claim. I'm asking you to consider what I've written and respond to it. If you want to say "That's all well and good for you to say, but don't people have an interest in how the car drives, too?" Fine. I don't disagree, but I wasn't suggesting that as the line for this thread.

    Well, many of us have the same hopes as you've expressed. Some think the 2009 doesn't need to be improved, except to get better mileage. I think Toyota is on the right track in making the Prius an overall better automobile -- at least in terms of creature comforts. To make it a sports sedan would increase costs to such a degree as to minimize the number of potential buyers.

    As far as I can tell, the LS 460 L is a mini-limo!
     
    #45 a priori, Mar 8, 2009
  6. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    a_priori,
    I found your comparison really good.
    I took it for what it was, facts with no opinion.
    Without expensive equipment how do you quantify handling and feel?
    Keep up the good work.
     
    #46 patsparks, Mar 8, 2009
  7. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    2001 Prius - Must take both front and back wheels off to put bike in trunk.
    1999 Camry - Must take only front wheel off to put bike in trunk
    2007 Prius - No wheels need to be taken off to put bike in back
    2010 Prius - ????
     
    #47 FL_Prius_Driver, Mar 8, 2009
  8. a priori

    a priori Canonus Curiosus

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    OK. Fair criticism. I was all about showing the Prius is bigger on the inside than it appears on the outside. I wanted to add to that the fact the Prius also has other amenities that make it fun to own. I got rolling and thought I'd throw in the MPG comparison and "remind" us all that just because the Prius is fairly small on the outside and has high MPGs, it wasn't the "econobox."

    Price became part of the comparison, also, and I mentioned the luggage/trunk space, so there can't be much left for purposes of comparison. I think we're down to driving/road handling, seat comfort/ergonomics, pure power/acceleration, and the ever present "good looks." Did I leave out the things that most people would say are Prius weaknesses? (Except there are a few of us who really do like the looks of the Prius.)

    Mea Culpa. I hope the McDonald's/Steak House comparison is hyperbole, but I'll agree I got a bit hissy in a couple responses. I won't venture away from any of my propositions, however. I won't back away from speaking the truth on it. But I'll accept the criticisms a bit better, I hope.

    I would like to be able to keep the thread on the line I had intended: Just because the Prius gets great gas mileage, and is smaller on the outside than most sedans, doesn't mean you won't find room and creature comforts on the inside. I think this is valuable information to share with people who have been buying upscale sedans but want to spend less and get better gas mileage. If they want unfettered luxury, they don't want the Toyota label anyway (please, no offense to Toyota!). If all they want is the best handling car on the planet, they are not looking at the other items as having the same value.

    Perhaps a better question for me to throw out there now is this: What other sedans (or automobiles) would you have compared to the Prius? (Please -- at least for the issue of space, amenities, MPGs and price!!)

    Well said. I think I'm just playing for the home crowd here, but this is a public forum. No, we don't need that. I don't view myself as doing the chest-thump routine, but please call it out as you see it.
     
    #48 a priori, Mar 8, 2009
  9. SW03ES

    SW03ES Senior Member

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    Nothing wrong with the 318i, I was just saying its hardly an example of how well the full 3 series coupes and sedans drive. They really do drive well.

    I never called you out for anything...someone else said that the 3 series and C class etc were much better to drive than the Prius and you said you had a 318i and that it was okay, implying that vehicle gave you a perspective the other poster didn't have. I simply said that it doesn't...
     
    #49 SW03ES, Mar 8, 2009
  10. Rae Vynn

    Rae Vynn Artist In Residence

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    I think the 2010 has plenty of room... Note: just for comparison purposes, I am a Plus-Sized woman... and there was PLENTY of room to RIDE a bicycle in there!
    [​IMG]
     
    #50 Rae Vynn, Mar 8, 2009
  11. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    I've never had a chance to compare the regular LS 460. However, the 460L I was allowed to sit in, the rear seats feel *very* substantial. That might have to do with the built-in massage

    For a few silly moments, sitting all comfy and relaxed in one of those enormous rear lounge-like seats, I actually imagined writing a cheque out.

    For a few silly moments ....
     
    #51 jayman, Mar 8, 2009
  12. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    The sales guy wanted me to take it for a spin, he knew I could afford it. I would have to say, just sitting in it while in the showroom, it's more Limo than mini-limo

    They also had a LS 600hL on display. It was a dark color, the 460L was a creamy beige, and I've always liked that color ...

    SLAP!

    Ok, I'm over it
     
    #52 jayman, Mar 8, 2009
  13. a priori

    a priori Canonus Curiosus

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    Ahh. I think I see it now. I didn't imply such and had no intention anyone would make the inference. It is sloppiness on my part. The reference to a 3 Series took me back many years.

    As you say, there was nothing wrong with the 318i. For a fun driving experience, it was a bit underpowered, but it had a wonderful transmission and some nimble handling.

    It just didn't have the look of the 2002!
     

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    #53 a priori, Mar 8, 2009
  14. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    On the topic of luxury, I personally feel the 2010 is moving a bit in the wrong direction. That is, getting bigger, when mine is big enough. More power, when mine has plenty of power

    Rather than tweak more power and have a slight fuel economy gain, why not tweak more fuel economy out of the same power?

    Or, failing that, something like a 3 cylinder HSD in a Corolla. That package would probably get far better fuel economy than the 2010 Prius
     
    #54 jayman, Mar 8, 2009
  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    It's the same size on the outside. They've just made even more tweaks on the inside to gain more space, thus improving space efficiency. It's still a move towards maximising resources be it fuel, or space.

    Power? True they could've gotten more FE out of it but keep in mind that Toyota's is straddling the line here. It's trying to appeal to Wayne Gerdes and Mr. Car and Driver at the same time. Kinda hard when they're at opposite ends of the spectrum.

    Oh they're great cars. Would love to take an LS600h L out for a spin.
     
    #55 Tideland Prius, Mar 8, 2009
  16. SW03ES

    SW03ES Senior Member

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    Have you ever driven one? The LS drives so beautifully, everything it does is just so subdued and damped. It rides unlike anything else on the road. My favorite car to drive, bar none.

    If you don't want to buy one, don't drive one ;)

    My dad has had two, he had a 98 and he has an 04 now. One thing that has always impressed me about the LS is how well they age. at 150k miles they ride and drive just like they were new. My ES has aged very well too, but not as well as the LS.

    Misunderstanding solved.
     
    #56 SW03ES, Mar 9, 2009
  17. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    That's what most owners seem to say and I do agree (although the new Camry XLE V6 is very close to a 1st Gen LS and closing in on the 2nd Gen... It's more powerful than the V8 and has everything except powered seatbelt height adjuster, illuminated seatbelt buckle receiver and other minor ambient lighting).
     
    #57 Tideland Prius, Mar 9, 2009
  18. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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    In the 2010 you can fit fat wheels and carrier basket
     
    #58 patsparks, Mar 9, 2009
  19. danl

    danl New Member

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    I'd agree with this post. While I love my 2009, and I think the 2010 offers fantastic technological enhancements in luxury and efficiency, its the wrong direction to go and they left a gaping big hole of opportunity for the insight. In person and on the road, its probably night and day, but on paper, the insight is almost indistinguishable to the 2010.

    The fact that Toyota decided to continue to offer the 2009 along side the 2010 to fill the lower price range gap seems to confirm their mistake.
     
    #59 danl, Mar 9, 2009
  20. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    The larger engine, while offering more power, also addresses highway fuel economy. I doubt they would have achieved that 49mpg figure w/ the existing 1.5L engine on the US test cycle.
     
    #60 HTMLSpinnr, Mar 9, 2009
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