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2010 Prius Vibration at Mid-Throttle

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by wetback1, Oct 12, 2015.

  1. wetback1

    wetback1 Junior Member

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    My 2010 Prius with 140000km has developed a vibration noticeable anywhere from 50-80 km/hr when in slight acceleration (just over 1/2 on the green bars) with the ICE running. Dropping the throttle or hard acceleration makes it disappear completely - which tells me it's driveline related. It feels like its coming from the passenger side, particularly rear, but it's definitely getting worse and I can now feel it in the driver's door panel so it's becoming a major concern. My first thought (due to the location) was a bad muffler but it's not any louder. I'm starting to worry it may be a transaxle bearing. I can't see it being a cv joint as there's no noises when cornering and everything underneath looked OK at a recent oil change.
    I love this car (what Prius owner doesn't?) and I sure can't afford to replace it. It's been babied since day one. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
     
  2. BZzap!

    BZzap! Senior Member

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    Usually a rear wheel bearing is not affected by changes in throttle input. It will usually be pretty constant rumbling. My first thoughts would be tire separation or something of that nature. Remember , the rear wheels are not subject to anything but weight. The just roll. The front wheels are a different matter. They have torque applied under throttle. With that being said, I would first, check your tires by lifting the off the ground and rotate them to see if you have any anomalies in the tread.
     
  3. wetback1

    wetback1 Junior Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Forgot to mention I rotated the tires when I changed the oil, less than 1000km ago. The vibration was there before and after and I didn't see anything amiss with the tires when I had them off. It's just my first impression that it's right rear, the more I check for it the more I think its coming from the engine or drive line. These cars are so quiet you can't 'hear' anything, you feel it - a shudder or a vibration and only at that point in the torque curve. At any other time the car runs flawlessly.
     
  4. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

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    If it is a specific speed it usually is the tires. Since you think it is coming from the rear passenger side, swap the rear tires to see if it improves. I find bad tires shake the least if it is placed at the rear driver side.

    Also winters almost here, you can just wait to see if it still shakes after you mount your winter tires. If you can't wait that long, then try mounting your 2 winter tires at the rear and see if it eliminates the shaking. I've run winter tires at the rear for 2 years straight thru summer and they never got destroyed.
     
  5. BZzap!

    BZzap! Senior Member

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    When you first described the symptoms one of my other thoughts was that it might be related to engine misfire, i.e. spark plug coil, or injector malfunction. However, something like that would probably trigger the MIL light to come on. However, you never know.
    At this point you may have no other alternative but to take it in and have it diagnosed at the dealer.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I noticed a very minor buzz at mid-throttle with ours, seemed to be coming from behind the glove box. Push a little harder, or less, it went away. This was 2~3 years back, haven't noticed it at all since. It didn't seem to be a dash rattle though, seemed mechanical.
     
  7. wetback1

    wetback1 Junior Member

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    Not a buzz - a vibration. I can feel it in my butt and somewhat hear it. I've had the tires balanced and rotated and no change.
    Since it only occurs at a given engine speed only when the ICE is running - my thoughts are it's a misfire, but no warning lights.
    Recent reading here has got me wondering about this whole EGR problem that some people have found. I'm wondering what symptoms the EGR has produced??
     
  8. m.wynn

    m.wynn Senior Member

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    Gonna bet you need to clean EGR ports the entire length of the intake manifold and the pipe from the manifold to the EGR valve. Although I may be wrong, I'm betting you're mistaking this "misfiring" for a vibration. This problem can get quite disconcerting and never throw a code as I can attest. Cleaning as stated fixes it. It involves some digging but is not a technically advanced procedure so long as you possess some mechanical inclination.

    Prius III engine knocking at high torque low RPM (solved) | PriusChat
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    khoda355 here has finally taken the whole EGR system off for cleaning. He says the component right at the beginning, next to the exhaust manifold was really badly clogged. And a bear to do.

    Not just another p0401.. PICS! | PriusChat
     
    m.wynn likes this.
  10. m.wynn

    m.wynn Senior Member

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    I'm guessing the P0401 guys have an issue at the EGR valve itself or in the exhaust side plumbing as per khoda's excellent photo documentary. They aren't necessarily reporting the missing at high-torque, low rpm issue. Thus my thinking that it's the clogged intake manifold and pipe to EGR side that's causing the missing and without code. This is somewhat backed up by khoda stating that the intake side cleaning did not rectify P0401. Either way, it's another of those very frustrating, seemingly widespread issues which Toyota is playing dumb about. And to think (at least I think) that of all the major auto brands, Toyota is most willing to own their issues...
     
  11. wetback1

    wetback1 Junior Member

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    I can see where this EGR problem would case a misfire and since the EGR doesn't normally open until the engine is at mid throttle and beyond that's why the miss doesn't show up at low speeds. At higher engine speeds the engine doesn't falter as much with the introduction of a little exhaust gas so under hard acceleration it's not noticeable.
    My next two questions would be a) what about the taxis running around with 400-500k on them? Surely they've run into this problem? and b) can you put a blocking plate into the system without the computer throwing a code? Would there be that great an effect on mileage?
    This should be a 500k+ car, not a 150000 kilometer one...
     
  12. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    #12 Former Member 68813, Nov 3, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
  13. wetback1

    wetback1 Junior Member

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    :)
     
    #13 wetback1, Nov 3, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
  14. olibiloli

    olibiloli Junior Member

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    Hi there, welcome to the club:D Sounds exactly like my Prius 2010' problem with 55K miles on it. We had another thread in August this year 'Prius shuddering on slow acceleration', where RudeBoiM3 described the same problem with another 2010 (!) Prius, you can check that thread as well. RudeBoiM3 was able to fix his problem, mine is still there. Prius doesn't throw any codes. I've done some DIY stuff myself: changed spar. plugs, ignition coils, PCV valve, put newer model intake manifold, changed ATF, cleaned throttle body, etc. Plan to work on EGR system and injectors when have time, currently running on tank of gas with Seafoam in it. Hopefully, I will be able to fix the problem before it's time to trade-in :confused:
     
  15. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    sorry i replied to you.
    mental note to myself: never reply to jerks who use racial slurs as their user names.
     
  16. wetback1

    wetback1 Junior Member

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    Have a NICE DAY :)
     
    #16 wetback1, Nov 5, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
  17. wetback1

    wetback1 Junior Member

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    Thanks for your input. I'm assuming that none of the DIYs you did made a marked difference. I can see why plugged passages in the intake would cause one or two cylinders to run very lean when the EGR opens; I've removed the airbox to see what all is involved in removing the intake.
    Although I don't normally believe in witches brews, a lot of people have mentioned seafoam so for $15 it might be worth a try first. I'd appreciate knowing what you found with it.
    Back in the 'good old days' we used to pour a quart or water down the carb at 2000rpm or so :) How times have changed!
     
  18. phoenixgreg

    phoenixgreg Senior member

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    My dad had a great mechanic who diagnosed a bad rear transaxle by noting the "shaking in the seat" feeling you describe. Of course it was an older rear-wheel drive with a regular differential. I assume you've done this, but you could jack each rear wheel, grasp it in the nine and three o'clock position and try to rock it pulling on one side and pushing on the other. Do the same at the six and twelve o'clock position - there should be no play at all. Back at the 3 and 9 postions, try lifting the tire and releasing...again there should be no bearing play.
     
  19. olibiloli

    olibiloli Junior Member

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    Any time! Those good days are gone, now we need 2 manuals instead of 1: one for electrical, another for mechanical :(
    Well, so far my DIYs didn't help much, but there is still some hope. It happens in the 'low RPM-high torque' range, and this is the moment when EGR valve starts to open. My Torque app tells EGR is opened between 15-25% at that moment, so I suspect something could be wrong with the EGR system. To rule it out I am going to disconnect EGR valve cable and test drive. In this scenario valve will never open, so if problem is still there, that means EGR is not the culprit, and vice versa. I will have to clear check engine code afterwards, but this could save me a lot of time if EGR is OK. Planning for this weekend if I have time.
     
  20. wetback1

    wetback1 Junior Member

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    I will check the rear wheel bearings but I have my doubts about that since either dropping the throttle or flooring it makes the vibration or 'rumble' disappear instantly. It's something torque related.
    Olibiloli - thinking after I posted my last reply, was there no change when you replaced your intake manifold? Did the EGR ports on the old manifold appear plugged? If there was no change with a brand new manifold that could derail my theory that the problem is plugged ports leaning the mixture too much on 1 or 2 cylinders. It can't be low flow from plugging upstream of the valve because it would throw a code and mileage would suffer. Likewise it can't be a dirty valve partially open as it would run like hell all the time. Aside from this narrow torque range the car runs like a charm. Lots of power and good mileage.
    I think unplugging the EGR and road testing is an excellent idea - can you clear the codes on a Prius with a standard OBD2 scan tool, or do you need something 'special'?