2012 Chevrolet Volt Racks Up 250,000 Miles, One-Third Electric, Rest At 39 MPG

He's still using Sparkie, the second one is probably for his wife.

 

do not know. Looks like Gen 2.

 

The fuel economy of the average car sold is 25mpg. That includes all the Prii sold. Over 90% of new cars sold are standard ICE.The likely hood is that this person would have ended up an ICE without a Volt option, that may have gotten 35mpg. Which would be about what he emitted with the Volt.

But it is an assumption that he would have purchased a compact car because he bought a Volt. At the 25mpg average he would have emitted 107,033kg of CO2, or 72% more than the Volt did.

Calling out one alternate fuel vehicle as using 'a lot of energy' when compared to another alternate fuel vehicle is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

The tax credit's main goal was not about reducing GHG, but we have over this topic that has political implications numerous time. Want to discuss it more, the link is in my sig.

The outrage isn't about using natural gas. The outrage is about claiming how clean a FCEV is while glossing over that the clean hydrogen will cost more, and that the only reason that FCEV had a chance with being pushed out now is because of cheap natural gas, and the dirtier hydrogen made from it. Isn't that one of the things you are outraged with the BEV camp?

Cheap, clean hydrogen may happen, but the expected time frame for it would also me

Should we trot out the ICE cars that have reached a million miles. The point that this Volt, and that taxi and the one before it, made it to 200k without needing an expensive replaced battery. Many people believed a hybrid wouldn't make it to 100k without it, and some still do.

Sparkie will likely get replaced with a gen2 Volt in the next couple years judging by how many miles he drives in a year. Or maybe he'll take the car to a million miles.

 

So, $15,000 total tax credit. Sweet.

Use a better comparable car, 2012 Cruze Eco rated 39 MPG highway.

EREV was also marketed as a cleaner more efficient vehicle due to higher MPG and EV range. It turns out to be false.

The ability to run on solar power source was hyped. In reality, PV system owners are charging it with fossil fuel, used as a cheap storage, while claiming zero emission.

The real cost to store solar power requires a few Powerwall home battery pack. If you want to charge is fast, you'll need even more. All that cost could exceed the cost of Volt itself.

Why do I mention it? Because hydrogen comes with the ability to store and quick refuel, from renewable. Mirai is much cleaner than Volt even if the source is domestic natural gas.

 

I read USB as saying that the subsidies are inefficient. Arguing that the inefficiency of your hated subsidy justifies your pet (also inefficient) subsidy is pissing in the wind. Fun until the wind direction turns.

Get rid of all of them
Tax externalities and use proceeds to build infrastructure for clean energy generation

Then we will get progress faster than an asleep turtle.

 

Let the Pigovian movement begin!

 

I don't think so. The article says he drove 247,585 miles.

62,196 kg / 247,585 = 251g CO2 per mile

According to the EPA, a non-plug Prius at 50 mpg emits 218g per mile.

That could also imply that his Volt emitted CO2 equivalent to a 43.4 mpg car, not 35.4 mpg.

Where did you get his electricity consumption and electric CO2 consumption numbers from?

I'm guess that you are confusing things by using EPA EV efficiency estimates together with EPA estimated utility grid electricity CO2 emissions from his area of Bellville, OH and his job in Lordstown, OH. Those electricity CO2 emissions from fueleconomy.gov include upstream fuel source emissions but you are then using a gasoline CO2 emission per gallon of 8.8 kg that does not include upstream emissions.

If you do the calculations consistently using fueleconomy.gov upstream emission values for both gasoline and Ohio grid electricity using his actual gasoline efficiency and the 2012 Volt's EPA estimated electric efficiency his car is emitting the CO2 equivalent to 39 mpg.

But, we don't know if he has signed up for any optional renewable electricity plan from his utility.

We do know that his GM plant in Lordstown, Ohio has had a dedicated EV charging solar panel canopy in their employee parking lot since 2012. We also know that they completed a new 8,500 panel, 2.2 MW solar installation at that same assembly plant last year.

GM building 8,500 panel solar array visible from Ohio Turnpike | cleveland.com

Here is his car's VoltStats page along with up-to-date monthly data figures:

Volt Stats: Details for Volt #2012-07353 (sparkie)

 

See post #22.

I took 62,196 kg of CO2 and divided by 8.887 kg/gallon to get 7,000 gallons consumed. 247,585 miles / 7,000 gallons = 35.4 MPG.

The error was, 8.887 kg/gallon does not include fuel production. I need to multiply it by 1.25.

Correction should be 62,196 / 11.11 = 5,599 gallons. 247,585 miles / 5,599 gallons = 44.2 MPG.

Improvement over 39 MPG Cruze Eco but below Malibu hybrid.

 

Woe is me, I am surrounded by barbarians.

Pigouvian

 

We know the household has at least two adults, and both likely have incomes, why shouldn't they both have access to any tax breaks?
Apparently, you by a plugin, claim credit, drive it for a year, sell it, buy another new one, and repeat.

Why? The OP article is about a single owner that has an extraordinary commute. Aside from the household's apparent satisfaction with the Volt, we have no info on what other car model or type they prefer. There is some anecdotal evidence that TCO was a consideration, but we don't know if it's a priority. So the Cruze ECO might be considered, but could lose out on ride quality. Being heavier, the Volt would have a more solid road feel. They may also put weight in other pollutants, and where they are emitted.

Which is why I said this is a poor one in order to have the Volt vs other car discussion. It is about a single, individual car that used for a commute on the extreme long end of what Americans drive. Any vehicle used will be bad, but it is among a tiny subset of the population, which makes its contribution tiny. Showing how he could have done better with another alternate fuel car doesn't help get more people into any alternate fuel car.

Let's say it was an article on how the Prius gets horrible fuel economy on their 5 mile commute, or not even an article, but just an individual post here. What would be more helpful to them and any readers; informing them that all ICE cars suffer poor fuel economy of short trips, or telling them they should go out and get an EV, or bike, or even walk to work?

And you just reinforced my point. Plugins were said to be clean, but it takes more work and time before they are cleaner than the cleanest ICE, hybrids included, cars. FCEVs are being said to be clean, and they could be with more time, work, and money, but they aren't now. Now, they are about as clean and efficient as the out going Civic CNG.

When the Mirai finally gets released, it will only available in half of California. In time, that might be the entire state, and some North East tri-state area. So it doesn't matter if it is cleaner than the Volt. The Volt can displace a 25mpg vehicle bought in all 50 states now. A Prius might emit less CO2 for some people, but if everybody wanted a Prius, Toyota would sell as many as the Camry.

As I see it, plugins can work for many people right now, with better and more affordable options arriving soon. Electric generation will get cleaner in time while gasoline production gets dirtier. In fact, that is what is happening at your home right now; you have gotten PVs, and Northeast gasoline is using a higher portion of tar sands crude, which can emit 75% more ghg than conventional oil well to pump.

FCEVs on the other hand, are less along in availability than BEVs were when the first Tesla Roadster was delivered. With a major investment, and time, they might get to where plugins are today. Technology for plugins, hybrids, ICEs, and renewable fuels for them aren't standing still until then.

Link to thread in my signature.

Which is a 4 year newer car that wasn't available at time of the Volt's purchase. I think we have more on the gen2 Volt's specs than the new Malibu hybrid, why not use them?

 

Not sure there is a preferred spelling. Both appear to be used interchangibly by economists.
MERGED

What are your favorite Pigo(u)vian taxes and subsidies?

You mentioned subsidizing clean energy generation/infrastructure/distribution (assuming you would tax dirty electricity generation to fund this).

Where would you spend gasoline tax? For example, credit to car manufacturers for production of vehicles above average MPG? Perhaps subsidize the consumer for the purchase of a more efficient vehicle?

Would be nice to have a thread on this if others are interested.

 

Hi iPlug,

I suspect that the lay, and modern American political use of 'pigouvian tax' is somewhat akin to a sin tax but I personally have no interest in that application. As a physician, while I am glad to see high taxes on tobacco e.g. for the overall health benefit, I don't really consider them sound economic policy. If I was king I would outlaw all subsidies tomorrow.

The 'gasoline tax' has the unfortunate status of going into the general fund. While *some* general fund is reasonable I think the lion's share of taxes should have pre-determined avenues where they are spent so that voters can choose which to support. My own personal caveat to this opinion is that I doubt the general populace can grasp just how beneficial government subsidy of basic science R&D is to the nation.

I would have a 'road tax' and a pigouvian 'carbon tax.' In the same vein as 'road tax' I suppose I should support an 'energy infrastructure' tax. As I understand pigouvian economics, the lion's share of the taxes should go towards reducing the taxpayer income tax burden and not be directed by government to its preferred choice.

 

Knew there was a connection, my fellow physician.

In a general sense, tax $ redistribution is just subsidizing someone or something else. Government transfers capital from one entity to another, whether for social justice, infrastructure support, or the myriad of other reasons.

It’s just with Pigovian taxes and subsidies that many of these things can be done with much greater efficiency and specificity.

You mention tobacco taxation. Ideally, these would subsidize health care and more specifically abatement. Of course so many taxes like these get lost in whole or part into some general fund.

In the case and road and carbon taxes, these address negative externalities. But Pigovian economics can also be applied to positive externalities. Your R&D example is such as case. Education would be similar. A person or institution involved in these activities generates benefits not only to oneself but also to society at large. Why not subsidize these efforts more directly?

Economists don’t agree on many things, especially when politics are involved. But Pigovian taxes are widely supported across the economic political spectrum.

Agree on the road tax and carbon taxation. But I think this money should directly be channeled towards building green transportation infrastructure and vehicles.

 

Mallibu is really nice to drive!

DBCassidy

 

Funny that this is Plug In and only 1/3 in electric mode. Our "C" isn't and still 16% in EV mode. Better MPG too.

 

No, your "C" presumably doesn't plug in so all of its "EV" mode driving is powered by energy from burning gasoline. If you counted that Volt's EV mode the same was it would be far higher than 1/3.

 

How Volt reports the EV miles? the miles traveled in EV mode? then regen miles are also included.

 

The Volt only counts miles driven on grid battery charge as EV miles.

Any energy from burning gasoline, including regenerated electricity while driving in "hybrid" or "Charge Sustaining" mode, are counted separately as gasoline miles.

 

But what happens with regen electricity? Does it go into separate battery?

 

No, there is only a single unified high voltage battery. Software keeps track of the original energy source (gasoline vs grid) and accounts for it separately.

This is easier to do in an EREV since it isn't frequently blending power from both sources like it could be in a Prius Plugin, for example.