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2012 engine shake on start, no codes

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by johnpr, Jun 10, 2017.

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  1. johnpr

    johnpr Junior Member

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    Hi guys, i have read similar threads, but couldnt find my problem..
    I have 2012 prius Vagon, over 300k km on clock.. last week, when engine started, it started to vibrate.. after while runs normally.. it was intermittent, now it happens almost everytime when i press accelerator pedal. The vibration is only below 55kmh speed, at higher speeds engine runs ok.
    Also i noticed that the water coolant has dropped.. not shown in oil though
    My mechanic swapped plugs, injectors, coils, did not help.. no fault codes.
    Yesterday i took it for driveway, car runs smooth in higher speeds, when i stopped and started engine, from driver seat i could hear some water running through pipes, very loudly, then engine shaked again.. when idle, and i press accelerator, engine tries to start, and shakes for couple of seconds.. its getting less intermittent.. mpg is much worse, 6-7l/100km
    where to start? Blown gasket? Egr? Manifold? Water pump?
    I had service done recently, 0w20 replaced by 5w30..
    btw, i was running on fumes and i filled my tank with bad quality petrol only few litres. thats when it all started. I filled my tank with 100oct shell petrol now, to rid off the bad petrol..
    Any advice is appreciated!
     
    #1 johnpr, Jun 10, 2017
  2. fopoku2k2

    fopoku2k2 Member

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    Sounds like a bad manifold. Get that cleaned fast. I blew my engine by being careless and not serving my manifold

    MI 5s ?
     
    #2 fopoku2k2, Jun 10, 2017
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  3. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    Check your engine mounts, and also see if you have enough fuel pressure delivered by the fuel pump.
     
    #3 Dxta, Jun 10, 2017
  4. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Welcome to Prius Chat (y)!

    When you say the coolant level is dropping, how much have you added and how frequently? Do you see any external leaks?

    Have you owned the car since new? Does your Prius consume any oil? Have you done any maintenance outside of the owners manual (PCV valve replacement, intake manifold cleanse, egr investigation,etc.)?

    Is the car showing any lights on the dash during the shaking or at any other time?

    Keep us posted (y).
     
    #4 Raytheeagle, Jun 10, 2017
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    In Canada owners just a notice of warranty extension on the Exhaust Gas Recirculation system (EGR), and shaking/knocking at cold start up is the specifc symptom described. It also notes that it's EGR clogging doing this.

    I'm not sure if this is just regular Prius, or the Prius v (larger itteration, roomier hatch) is included. I think that's what you have in Ireland, slightly different name?

    In the US they got similar warranty extension notice, a few years back.
     
    #5 Mendel Leisk, Jun 10, 2017
  6. johnpr

    johnpr Junior Member

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    Do you mean intake manifold?
     
    #6 johnpr, Jun 11, 2017
  7. fopoku2k2

    fopoku2k2 Member

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    Yes sir

    MI 5s ?
     
    #7 fopoku2k2, Jun 11, 2017
  8. johnpr

    johnpr Junior Member

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    Oil is not dropping. After weekend, i noticed that my engine coolant is dropping.. today (sunday) i checked the oil dip stick, and on the top of stick i found some butter-ish residue.. also the engine coolant in reservoir has dropped by 1 centimeter.. seems to be blown head gasket :(:(:( my mechanic didnt find any fauly codes on diagnostic...
    The car used to be taxi in paris, france.. prius plus here in europe, 7-seater. 330thousand km on the clock.
    I didnt do any manifold/egr/pcv valve cleaning as of yet.. after purchase, my plan was to do a deep engine cleaning/replacement service, now seems to be the right time.. it seems like the head gasket has failed..
    May I ask you, which parts should i clean/replace, while the gasket is being replaced? I have heard that water pump replacement is good idea because of access while engine is disassembled.
    My list for my mechanic:
    1. Replace head gasket
    2. Replace water pump
    3. Clean intake manifold
    4. Clean egr pipe
    5. Clean egr valve
    6. What else would you recommend to be cleaned/replaced? Thank you for your advice!
     
    #8 johnpr, Jun 11, 2017
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  9. johnpr

    johnpr Junior Member

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    I didnt do it yet, is it hard to clean? Can this be done while the head gasket is being replaced?

    Many thanks!
     
    #9 johnpr, Jun 11, 2017
  10. fopoku2k2

    fopoku2k2 Member

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    I think so

    MI 5s ?
     
    #10 fopoku2k2, Jun 11, 2017
  11. johnpr

    johnpr Junior Member

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    Mendel,
    The car is european version of V, its called prius plus, 7-seater version.
    I never heard of extended warranty on egr system..
    My suspicion was bad petrol, this weekend i did few short trips in town, engine was vibrating almost everytime when starting.. also the coolant has dropped by 1 cm, in 2days! :( I checked the oil disptick, and found some butterish substance above the oil level measurement area. BLOWN GASKET? :(
    I replaced the transaxle fluid, spark plugs, and typical stuff like oil, filters, etc.. engine wasnt touched so far..
    As an experienced person, i would like to ask you, what would be your advice on servicing of 300k km, prius? Which parts should be replaced/cleaned while the head gasket is being replaced?
    It is quite expensive job, but i want to get the car into condition as if it was new, engine-wise. I love the car, the way it works is brilliant, and i would love to keep it for another 5-10years, if it proves its reliability!
    I do mostly short trips in town, 90% only 2-3 km long trips..
    I have heard that there is a recommended service interval for head gasket, 300k km, is that correct?
    Many thanks for your time!
     
    #11 johnpr, Jun 11, 2017
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Clean EGR cooler, that's just upstream of the EGR and valve, and a bit of a pain to get to, you need to pull off the windshield cowl, wipers and motors. More of a pain to clean. And it has coolant lines.

    Yeah it does, but I'm not very knowledgable. But yeah, from what I've read. Head gasket fails, and coolant is able to migrate through the failed zone, from coolant channel to combustion chamber.
     
    #12 Mendel Leisk, Jun 11, 2017
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  13. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    One area I would look to address would be the egr cooler and valve. I would have them pulled and cleaned. But the list you have looks correct. I have helped with the water pump replacement and it isn't bad while the engine is in the car.

    Are you a DIY type? If not, the above list will get costly, due to labor rates:(.

    Keep us posted(y).
     
    #13 Raytheeagle, Jun 11, 2017
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  14. johnpr

    johnpr Junior Member

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    My friend is a mechanic, I am good at dismantling things, putting it back together is a different story :):)
    Good idea, thank you for your advice, i will let you know how things work out..
     
    #14 johnpr, Jun 11, 2017
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  15. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Sounds good;).

    Please return with the follow up when you have it.

    Getting another data point will help the community out(y).
     
    #15 Raytheeagle, Jun 11, 2017
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  16. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    I'd remove all the spark plugs and have a look. If you have one that looks really clean and the others have deposits on them - headgasket. Did the seller change the plugs recently?

    +1 to EGR cooler. My cooler was restricted at 70k miles
     
    #16 mjoo, Jun 11, 2017
  17. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    If it is a head gasket that engine's coming out. If that's the case you'll probably want to wait until the engine is out to clean the intake, EGR, EGR pipe and Cooler, MAF sensor, etc... You'll spend less time that way.

    On a lighter note, that frothy brown mix on your dipstick could be from a clogged PCV valve. You could have a coolant leak from a hose. Does the brown froth smell like coolant + oil?
     
    #17 mjoo, Jun 11, 2017
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  18. johnpr

    johnpr Junior Member

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    Exactly, but other way around! One spark plug was dirtier than the rest..
     
    #18 johnpr, Jun 12, 2017
  19. johnpr

    johnpr Junior Member

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    The pcv valve has not been checked at all.. i will check that as soon as i get a chance.
    So you are saying that the engine vibrating on start and butterish stuff on top of dipstick does not necessarily have to be headgasket? Just to clean all mentioned above (egr, pcv, manifold)?
     
    #19 johnpr, Jun 12, 2017
  20. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    I have personally witnessed a plugged PCV system and that was one of the symptoms - light brown buttery stuff on top of dipstick and cream covered oil cap. This was on a different engine.

    If one plug is fouled badly that cylinder could be missing (bad ignition) and cause an imbalance (vibration).

    I think another sign of a bad headgasket is coolant immediately bubbling when the reservoir cap is off and a cold engine has started. But then again, with age and use, radiators leak, hoses leak, and water pumps leak.

    Another thing that's possible but not reported on PriusChat (to my knowledge) is when the EGR cooler breaks internally and leaks into the intake manifold through the EGR. It has happened on other vehicles.

    Ruling out a headgasket would be near the top of my list.

    It doesn't have to be from a headgasket. It could be from a combination of things. If you don't have the service records that show proper maintenance I would highly suspect a combination of things. Especially if you don't have the classic symptoms of a bad head gasket. Some good sleuthing could save you time and $$$. Hope this helps.
     
    #20 mjoo, Jun 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017
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