2012 Toyota Prius Plug-In: 15 mile EV range, 87 MPGe, $32,000

15 miles EV range is from the US announcement. There is no indication whether if it is from EPA test or not but there is no asterisk next to it.

 

Yes, Toyota's 15 mile electric range claim for the U.S. Plug-in Prius is vague.

I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a Toyota brochure or web page released for the the 2011 Frankfurt announcement that referred to the Prius Plug-in getting "approximately 14.5 miles" and I think the U.S. marketing announcement likely just rounded that up to 15.

It would make no sense for the U.S. version of the Plug-in Prius to get significantly better electric range than the European version. The 14.3 European cycle range number is almost certainly significantly higher than an equivalent EPA electric range would be.

The Volt and Leaf electric range estimates based on the European cycle are reported as being 48% higher than their EPA electric range estimates -- 52 vs. 35 for Volt/Ampera and 109 vs. 73 for the Leaf. If the Plug-in Prius 14.3 mile electric range were similarly scaled it would end up as 10.

 

why didnt they just put miles/kWh on the EPA sticker? My european self can not make sense of MPGe.

 

most likely they decided not to use such far fetching estimates, as people will end up complaining for not reaching them. Just like they do on leaf and volt.

 

Huh?

Toyota is using the same European cycle test estimates that generate those high electric range estimates for the Volt and Leaf..... That is the source of their 14.3/14.5 electric range estimate for the Plug-in Prius in their recent Frankfurt announcement and the follow-on U.S. announcement of 15 is almost certainly based on that as well.

 

I'm one of those that assume that 87mpge is for those charge depleting miles. If so then in the 15 charge depleting miles if you use 3.6kwh then you will also use 0.07 gallons of gasoline. In any of the cars you can stay at low speed and get better kwh/mi, but I doubt toyota is claiming 15 all electric miles with no gasoline doing epa type testing.

They do have this kwh/100 miles on the EPA sticker as well as MPGe.

 

really? Well what portion of the test do they emulate under EV, when test itself is a lot longer than 15 miles?

I am sure there is quite an difference they could make with that, otherwise you would have same difference between Prius EPA and Prius European figures, just like you do with Volt and Ampera.

 

I am going to start a thread for all interested to post their PIP EPA sticker guesses; then, I expect everybody to spot posting as if they had a clue and instead preface any statement discussing PIP fuels economy with "according to my guess,..."

 

I don't know. Toyota states that the number is calculated based on the European test cycle but they don't give any details about how they applied the test cycle to the Prius blended hybrid design. I haven't yet found any detailed specifications for how the electric range calculation for the European test cycle is being performed even for full-power electric designs like the Volt and Leaf. I just know the results have been disclosed. I've done some simple searching for the test cycle regulations but haven't yet really focused on finding the specifics that I'm looking for.

 

i am pretty they can influence their results or they wouldnt be so different.

it is almost impossible for anyone to make "perfect" grading scale when you have plugins that could be 10 miles, 15, 25, 35, 41, etc, etc.

 

Toyota's cautiousness does seem to be a bit over the top and wondering how much development was vested before the Leaf's release. its no secret that range anxiety only takes a backseat to cost.

the price point Toyota has entered their first PIV is a no brainer. sure many think that $24,000 would have been better but with the exchange rate. that would have been impossible and remember, this is not a new car, its a modified Prius which means there is a higher minimal standard level the Prius must maintain which adds to the price. so to get ANY AER AND maintain the 50 mpg is really a monumental task considering the price.

with the introductory PIV model with its seemingly paltry 15 mile AER, i see the beginnings of the same development cycle of the Prius. this model is really not the end product. its the "toe in the water" but not in a sense of testing the water. its the process in which Toyota slowly gains acceptance of the technology; the acclimation of the water to the fears associated with word "battery"

remember; acceptance of Version 1 means excitement when a 50% increase in performance for model 2 is announced.

 

There's two ways I look at it, and I keep going back and forth, undecided:

1) The regular Prius is not inexpensive. It has a lot of high tech technology in it. The PHV has even more technology and a higher tech battery. The car has a lot of high tech technology in it, and just like a smart phone, it's not inexpensive.

2) Just like Henry Ford's vision with the Model-T, "A car in every driveway," Toyota wants to keep the Prius affordable to the average middle-class American (yes, we live in a global world today, but I'm using this as a reference point). And as Toyota and society moves forward, more toward plug-in hybrids and further away from gas guzzling 1900s technology, I'm sure Toyota should want to establish the Prius PHV as affordable to the middle class and not some super expensive car for the few.

Understanding that the technology is expensive, I was hoping for a balance between these two; and hoping for a base price in the 20s, such as $29,900. They can then make up for this by selling option-loaded versions for $39K to the people that want to spend that amount. And they can make a Lexus version to rake in even more profits. They already have the CT200h.

 

margins on nav systems

Side note: In a conversation w/one ofne of my friends recently, he mentioned he had a friend who used to work at Nissan and told him about how high the profit margins on factory nav systems are. (I wouldn't surprise me given the amount of griping we all have about factory nav system prices, not to mention the price of updates.) I don't remember if upgraded stereos were included too.

So, I wouldn't be surprised that part of the forced bundling of nav on the PiP, which forces you to compare prices to a nav equipped non-PiP is a means of essentially absorbing/masking (for lack of a better term) the costs of the battery and associated extra components and engineering.

In other words, I suspect profit margins are equally high on Toyota factory nav on a regular Prius. Toyota might be willing to eat some/all of that margin on the PiP by including nav in order to help pay for the big li-ion battery, extra electronics, and the engineering effort.

 

That's my guess, and Wayne Gerdes at cleanmpg mentioned the battery for the PHV is $7000, IIRC.

 

2012 Toyota Prius Plug-In seen wearing White!

2012 Toyota Prius Plug-In

 

Nice write up. The white pictures helped me to decide to stick with the blue.

 

Toyota had said a couple of years ago that battery costs were around $1200/kwh. The pack is 4.4kwh so that would be a cost $5280. Now, there is profit, warrenty, and dealer markup, but you need to also subtract the cost of the nimh battery also. The costs of the other changes do not depend on the size of the battery pack.

Toyota has also said that they now expect to be able to reduce costs to $750/kwh by 2016. For competitive reference we know that ford is buying batteries for $750 in the transit connect, and can assume the ones for the focus ev and c-max energi are at that price or lower. GM and Nissan claim costs are lower than this also for their packs. Nissan claims that when the NA is chugging along they will be able to reduce costs to $375/kwh.

 

The PPI won't be available in Texas for 2 years. How/when will you get one?

 

Drop shipment from CA to TX (necessary to avoid CA taxes), which of course makes me a crazy SOB with no economic sense at all!